TOS - Who Mourns for Adonais?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Christianity looks at humans as a collective

I am the Lord thy God. You will be assimilated.

Oh you got a natural monopoly on it or something?

[FaxModem1]

We have another ''Miri'' here whereby Gene raises an epic question with far reaching implications... and then forgets about it. THE GREEK GODS are real ffs. I would argue very much for the Ancient Greeks being the most important civilization in human history - or at the very least, the most important of Western history. So much of our world today can be traced back to them. Architecture, stories, art, culture, language, systems of government, wars that led to other great nations rising and falling. And here we are, face to face with Apollo, and we get worse than nothing. A villain of the week with no follow up.

The other really big example of this I can think of is learning that Leonardo Da Vinci is a Highlander. And that episode ends with him now being some loner who is trying to perfect a line of robot sex dolls and Kirk warping off into the sunset promising to keeping it secret that he exists - a promise that he then goes onto to break according to Janeway. Real amazing stuff.

Flint was either delusional or lying, due to his robot being a girl sexbot and Leonardo's rather famous affairs with young men. This is probably why Janeway was rather dismissive of him being the real deal. "Oh yes, I was Leonardo, and Brahms, too, and certainly not some rich patron who kept their works preserved for centuries in my collections and have gone crazy just being alone with them to the point that I think that I made them. "

Spock or Kirk probably did some research, found out about Salai, and decided Flint was full of shit when it came to him being Leonardo, and let Starfleet know that there's an old man there dying who will be dead in a century or so, so just take the place when he passes on.

Jerome Bixby, the writer of that episode, and later on the movie The Man from Earth, really had a thing for immortal cavemen being famous people. He originally wanted Flint to be Moses, Jesus, and Picasso as well, but was told no. So the line was changed to him knowing Moses and being Leonardo and Brahms instead. Jesus and Moses because that would anger the more religious audience, and Picasso because the guy was still alive, and would make NBC open to a lawsuit. Also, it's rather insulting to a living artist to say that you're not real and that all the works you make are because you're actually some superbeing posing as you.

It falls into the same issue that Men in Black and Stargate has. Oh, humanity could never do these things, it has to be an alien that did it, or an immortal caveman, or elves, or a vampire, etc. It sells humanity, or the gifted among us, short of what we could accomplish or have accomplished. Bixby at least had the notion to limit John to just being Jesus, and not also Van Gogh, Gilgamesh, Buddha, and all the other famous people he namedropped.

Similarly, in regards to Apollo... he may have organized a bunch of shepherds and hunters into the beginnings of civilization, or he may be lying, and/or similarly as delusional as Flint.

[*]Why is Uhura wearing a towel around her neck, when she is crawling underneath the circutry? Couldn't they design that set a little bit less problematic in that regard, considering that it might be there to protect her costume, hairdo or whatever? Also, considering they had to build that set in the first place, for this single short scene, why did they do that in the first place? The show is chronically low on budget all the time and there is just no need for this scene. Or Communications Officer Uhura doing the work there anyways. Wouldn't it be more sensible to have an actual technician work on that thing? Some unpaid extra laying on the floor beneath Uhura's console, while she blurts some technobabble at Spock, like they usually do?

It looks like a protective layer of clothing. Similar to what welders wear. Considering that she's doing some soldering there with the machinery, that makes sense, as normal work uniforms aren't meant to stand against such things if she gets hit by something hot. In-story, it's because Uhura is the most qualified to do this:

(Uhura is underneath the communications station, doing some soldering.)
SPOCK: Progress report.
UHURA: I'm connecting the bypass circuit now, sir. It should take another half hour.
SPOCK: Speed is essential, Lieutenant.
UHURA: Mister Spock, I haven't done anything like this in years. If it isn't done just right, I could blow the entire communications system. It's very delicate work, sir.
SPOCK: I can think no one better equipped to handle it, Miss Uhura. Please proceed.
UHURA: Yes, sir. Right away.

Narratively, probably to show that Uhura was just as capable as Scotty, and since this was season 2, after Nichele Nichols had her talk with MLK and she told Gene Roddenberry, they probably wanted to make sure that Uhura looked like she was more capable of doing something besides just answering a switchboard. It also gives a moment where fan favorite Spock says that he considers her the best person to do it.

BTW, I did discover one other thing on my Wiki binge: the original ending for this episode had Palamas fall pregnant with Apollo's child. And it isn't at all clear that she wasn't raped.

KIRK: "Yes, Bones? Somebody ill?"
McCOY: "Carolyn Palamas rejected her breakfast this mornin."
KIRK: "Some bug going around?"
McCOY: "She's pregnant, Jim. I've just examined her."
KIRK: "What?"
McCOY: "You heard me."
KIRK: "Apollo?"
McCOY: "Yes"
KIRK: "Bones, it's impossible!"
McCOY: "Spock, may I put a question to this gadget of yours? I'd like to ask it if I'm to turn my Sickbay into a delivery room for a Human child–or a god. My medical courses did not include obstetrics for infant gods."

That brings two questions to mind:

1) Were Apollo and Palamas out of sight of Kirk and the others long enough to have engaged in intercourse? (consensual or otherwise)
2) Is there any place nearby that would afford them the kind of privacy one would typically want when having an intimate moment? (somehow I doubt Apollo's McTemple is large enough to have a decent master bedroom inside)

Apollo guides Palamas through some hedges a few times in the episode. As in, they walk through and fade away in a special effect, not a opening in the hedges. They later have a scene somewhere else that is full of stock footage, so Apollo either took her to his own private dimension, or teleported her to another part of the planet where they wouldn't be disturbed, Apollo also later on....attacks Palamas when she is trying to say that she doesn't care for him to weaken his power, this is why later on, when they return, Palamas looks a bit roughed up.

So, they could have done the deed the first time they were alone, and it was consensual, or the second time, wherein Apollo was......showing a god's wrath.

[JL_Stinger]

Also, speaking as somebody who worships a couple of Greek gods, a lot of the rape myths are more cultural motifs than canonical theology. It's like somebody 900 years from now learning about American Christianity from netflix archives of Supernatural and Lucifer. In particular, a huge amount of the "Greek gods, and Zeus in particular, were total dickheads" comes from the most well-known versions of myths coming from Ovid, who definitely had an ax to grind.

That said, even going by the nastier myths of the time, the ones I'm following have no attributed rapes. That's the nice thing about polytheism; it offers choices.

I can't understand why anyone would be polytheistic. If you're not all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good you don't deserve worship.

[CrypticMirror]

Also, speaking as somebody who worships a couple of Greek gods, a lot of the rape myths are more cultural motifs than canonical theology. It's like somebody 900 years from now learning about American Christianity from netflix archives of Supernatural and Lucifer. In particular, a huge amount of the "Greek gods, and Zeus in particular, were total dickheads" comes from the most well-known versions of myths coming from Ovid, who definitely had an ax to grind.

That said, even going by the nastier myths of the time, the ones I'm following have no attributed rapes. That's the nice thing about polytheism; it offers choices.

I can't understand why anyone would be polytheistic. If you're not all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good you don't deserve worship.

At least they are not pretending to be all of those things, but still letting evil shit happen all over the place and just claiming some sort of divine plan; if anything is said at all and not a deafening silence when help is needed. At least the polytheistic religions say that they are just looking after one little bit and willing to work with you on that basis. Better a small god than a deaf and dumb one. Of course, better none at all than either.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Also, speaking as somebody who worships a couple of Greek gods, a lot of the rape myths are more cultural motifs than canonical theology. It's like somebody 900 years from now learning about American Christianity from netflix archives of Supernatural and Lucifer. In particular, a huge amount of the "Greek gods, and Zeus in particular, were total dickheads" comes from the most well-known versions of myths coming from Ovid, who definitely had an ax to grind.

That said, even going by the nastier myths of the time, the ones I'm following have no attributed rapes. That's the nice thing about polytheism; it offers choices.

I can't understand why anyone would be polytheistic. If you're not all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good you don't deserve worship.

I can't speak for everyone, and obviously many don't agree with my theology, but I got tired of making excuses for a god who claimed to be all-powerful, all-knowing, AND all-loving at the same time. Everything has to fit into one divine plan.

I can't see the heterogenous, wild wild world we live in as the result of one single purpose, one single hand, one shaping divine agency. If there is any divine plan, I see the result of multiple, conflicting divine plans, different hands, different goals, different gods bending the world to their different wills. Nothing about the cosmos I inhabit strikes me as monolithic.


And why does a god need to be omniscient, omnipotent, AND omnibenevolent to be worthy of worship? A god only needs to be wise enough and powerful enough to answer your prayers.

[JL_Stinger]

And why does a god need to be omniscient, omnipotent, AND omnibenevolent to be worthy of worship? A god only needs to be wise enough and powerful enough to answer your prayers.

So Santa Claus is a god? If the federal government answers your prayers does that make the president a god?

The only thing worthy of worship is perfection. Anything less is just a space wizard.

[CrypticMirror]

And why does a god need to be omniscient, omnipotent, AND omnibenevolent to be worthy of worship? A god only needs to be wise enough and powerful enough to answer your prayers.

So Santa Claus is a god? If the federal government answers your prayers does that make the president a god?

Yes.

and

The current one seems to think he is.

HTH.

[Rocketboy1313]

You all might want to keep in mind that ancient societies might have anthropomorphized natural forces into a variety of gods, but that did not mean they were BENEVOLENT.

Worship was not to pay back a god for answering prayers, nor was it a payment to receive favor, but often it was a sacrifice to placate, distract, or stave off the random-bullshit wrath of a god.

Apollo deform Midas with giant ears for no other reason than Midas said he liked Pan pipe music more than Apollo's lute music. To say nothing of Echo or Io or the countless other random people who got screwed over just because the gods were short on patience.

There are some exceptions. Egypt's gods were mostly chill and consistent, a byproduct of living on the Nile, one of the most consistent natural features of the world, and the Sahara, one of the most vast and constant geographical hazards of the world. Less random bullshit, more rational and even keel gods... and a shitload of snakes.

[Fianna]

And why does a god need to be omniscient, omnipotent, AND omnibenevolent to be worthy of worship? A god only needs to be wise enough and powerful enough to answer your prayers.

So Santa Claus is a god? If the federal government answers your prayers does that make the president a god?

The only thing worthy of worship is perfection. Anything less is just a space wizard.

Neither Santa Claus nor the federal government traditionally demand worship, so it's a moot point. If they did start asking people to worship them, then it would fall to the individual to decide whether to go along with their demands, whether to do without them, or whether to try to force them to drop their pretensions of godhood.

Suppose there are beings out there who control the weather, who can make you or anyone else fall in or out of love at will, or who will have eternal dominion over your soul upon your death. And these beings make it known that they want people to worship them, sing their praises, and offer them sacrifices. In that scenario, would you want these beings to get pissed at you?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

And why does a god need to be omniscient, omnipotent, AND omnibenevolent to be worthy of worship? A god only needs to be wise enough and powerful enough to answer your prayers.

So Santa Claus is a god? If the federal government answers your prayers does that make the president a god?

The only thing worthy of worship is perfection. Anything less is just a space wizard.

Why? What's wrong with a space wizard? Why do you demand total omnipotence?