ENT - Bound

[lightningbarer]

Except I didn't say that I want fan service to be eliminated.

So...you were just saying this to what...point it out?

You never answered me on this btw, so...yeah, are you being a prude or are you just trying to argue against your points now?

I was thinking more along the lines of how the men all acted like drooling idiots and the women acted irritable and bitchy toward the scantily clad women basically. And then there's the part I mentioned about how there are apparently no women in the security department, or amongst the MACOs (even though we've seen them there before).

I doubt he's a prude just based on plenty of things he's said. And I'd say there's nothing wrong with wanting the show to be a bit less juvenile. I see that point to an extent in that there's that whole sci-fi ghetto thing going on, where it's hard for sci-fi to be taken seriously, in part because the people running the show think they only way they can get people to watch is if they stick the fan service in it. This was actually why T'Pol's catsuit always bothered me, because it really tended to make it difficult to take her seriously or served to undermine anything she said a bit.

An example I like going back to is from an episode of Space Battleship Yamato 2199 (which also loves its catsuits) in which two of the crew members come back to a drifting and seemingly abandoned Yamato. They're crawling around in their version of Jeffries Tubes and it's all mysterious and interesting, and suddenly the "camera" cuts to an angle where the women's twat is hanging out from between her legs thanks to the catsuit. Kind of ruined the mood, know what I mean? And sci-fi is hardly the only genre to be guilty of this kind of thing, and it has a reputation for being schlocky in general. So I can see were people are coming from, which is that it comes from wanting the show to distance itself from that reputation for schlock.

See the problem you've got Admiral X is that I'm not letting you cry about it but saying the simple thing "you don't like it, don't watch it"

Now you can argue against my position, but if you do that you leave the door wide open for those of us who disagree with you on other topics.

See, what you do - and you know you do it by doing what you've done here - is say

"its okay when we are contradictory, we can do this whenever we want. You can't do that though, if you do this to the things we like, we'll say you need to leave and enjoy your own thing. Which we will then invade when our thing dies."

I just lead people like you a merry ol' chase to let you show this yourselves.
Also, nice to not tag me when replying to me, sure that's not trying to get the last word in at all.

Also, sorry this is a little long, I know how it hurts you to have to read long things, I'll try and do better next time.

[lightningbarer]

Also

I mean WOW!

Saying that because what a woman wears you can't take her seriously.

Jiminy Cricket Admiral X, do you HAVE to objectify a woman like that! Fans of T'Pol can think she's hot while also thinking she's smart! How can you sit there and judge others when you say "well she's wearing a catsuit so how smart can she actually be!"

And yes, I know I'm doing something here you don't like, but either its the truth and you don't want to hear it or you're just saying things without thinking and that's sort of a...well terrible thing to do.

I doubt he's a prude just based on plenty of things he's said. And I'd say there's nothing wrong with wanting the show to be a bit less juvenile. I see that point to an extent in that there's that whole sci-fi ghetto thing going on, where it's hard for sci-fi to be taken seriously, in part because the people running the show think they only way they can get people to watch is if they stick the fan service in it. This was actually why T'Pol's catsuit always bothered me, because it really tended to make it difficult to take her seriously or served to undermine anything she said a bit.

[clearspira]

Also

I mean WOW!

Saying that because what a woman wears you can't take her seriously.

Jiminy Cricket Admiral X, do you HAVE to objectify a woman like that! Fans of T'Pol can think she's hot while also thinking she's smart! How can you sit there and judge others when you say "well she's wearing a catsuit so how smart can she actually be!"

And yes, I know I'm doing something here you don't like, but either its the truth and you don't want to hear it or you're just saying things without thinking and that's sort of a...well terrible thing to do.

I doubt he's a prude just based on plenty of things he's said. And I'd say there's nothing wrong with wanting the show to be a bit less juvenile. I see that point to an extent in that there's that whole sci-fi ghetto thing going on, where it's hard for sci-fi to be taken seriously, in part because the people running the show think they only way they can get people to watch is if they stick the fan service in it. This was actually why T'Pol's catsuit always bothered me, because it really tended to make it difficult to take her seriously or served to undermine anything she said a bit.

Admiral may not be saying it but I certainly will: yes, i do take women less seriously if they wear a catsuit, just as I would take a man less seriously if he wore a catsuit too. And newsflash: Welcome to the real world. Where choices you make actually matter.

Also, Admiral may not be saying it but I certainly will: yes, most shows would be better without fanservice. It adds absolutely nothing to the product to tell an actress to get her cleavage out apart from getting the audience to make fapping sounds. Because that is what it comes down to for me: we are not talking about T'Pol because she's not real, we are talking about Jolene Blalock and the male writers who have designed the character she plays. At some point Berman and Braga sat down and said ''you know what our super smart science officer needs? a catsuit that amplifies her tits and ass.''

Do you remember what Chuck pointed out about how Spock, Tuvok and T'Pol's Pon Farr was handled? Spock got a legendary character piece, Tuvok got to solemnly meditate and then mate with a hologram off camera, and T'Pol got to strip down to her panties for thirty minutes... or rather, Jolene Blalock on a freezing cold set in front of twenty guys got to strip down to her panties for thirty minutes.

[Robovski]

Fanservice in general is embarrassing to me and makes me not want to share that I am watching a piece of media. This is a problem in some sci-fi and a lot of anime for me. But I think I'm the odd one on that.

[Deledrius]

Fanservice in general is embarrassing to me and makes me not want to share that I am watching a piece of media. This is a problem in some sci-fi and a lot of anime for me. But I think I'm the odd one on that.

You're not alone. Even something like GiTS:SAC requires consideration before recommending, because despite the excellent content the presentation is not for all audiences.

[lightningbarer]

Admiral may not be saying it but I certainly will: yes, i do take women less seriously if they wear a catsuit, just as I would take a man less seriously if he wore a catsuit too. And newsflash: Welcome to the real world. Where choices you make actually matter.

Also, Admiral may not be saying it but I certainly will: yes, most shows would be better without fanservice. It adds absolutely nothing to the product to tell an actress to get her cleavage out apart from getting the audience to make fapping sounds. Because that is what it comes down to for me: we are not talking about T'Pol because she's not real, we are talking about Jolene Blalock and the male writers who have designed the character she plays. At some point Berman and Braga sat down and said ''you know what our super smart science officer needs? a catsuit that amplifies her tits and ass.''

Do you remember what Chuck pointed out about how Spock, Tuvok and T'Pol's Pon Farr was handled? Spock got a legendary character piece, Tuvok got to solemnly meditate and then mate with a hologram off camera, and T'Pol got to strip down to her panties for thirty minutes... or rather, Jolene Blalock on a freezing cold set in front of twenty guys got to strip down to her panties for thirty minutes.

Thank you ClearSpira, at least you're being honest with this whole thing.

You don't care that you're in the VAST minority of a fandom, you just want it to change to suit your feelings because you say it is wrong for some reason.

At least you're honest with your attempt at inserting your own ideas and agenda into fandoms that don't want them.

Because there's one thing you haven't thought of yet.
If Star Trek has had fan service for decades
And if Anime has had fan service for decades
And it continues to have that.
And the ratings for the shows don't decline

The fandom is fine with it and don't see a problem.

You see a problem.
So its a problem for you to deal with.

By taking my advice and not watching shows that offend you so much.

Just like I do when I don't watch shows that pander and appeal to a current mindset of needing to appeal to everyone while actually lecturing to everyone about how one certain group are the problem.

So
Are you going to do it? Leave a fandom that upsets you?
Or are you going to stamp your feet and demand that we change to suit you?

[lightningbarer]

Fanservice in general is embarrassing to me and makes me not want to share that I am watching a piece of media. This is a problem in some sci-fi and a lot of anime for me. But I think I'm the odd one on that.

Then why do you continue to watch something that offends you?

I don't watch cop drama shows because they have a horrible bias they refuse to mention.

I don't watch TLC or any of their programming because I don't like the idea of appealing to the lowest common denominator

I don't watch Star Trek Discovery because it has zero understanding of how to incorporate a story into a franchise without making VAST amounts of mistakes and futzing with previously established canon and history.

There's other stuff as well, but I think you get my point.

If fan service embarrasses you, why continue to watch the things that promote it? Surely if you're in the majority, people will leave and the thing that is "embarrassing" will fail.

And if it doesn't fail, at least then you're not embarrassed anymore when you tell people about the things you like.

Surely you're not going to demand that because of this one issue, you want it to be changed, right?

[TGLS]

Because there's one thing you haven't thought of yet.
If Star Trek has had fan service for decades
...
And it continues to have that.
And the ratings for the shows don't decline

Well, that's an interesting example to use. Star Trek literally went off the air after five episodes after this. Discovery hardly has any Fanservice, especially involving a main cast member (of course, you don't watch Discovery, so you wouldn't know that).

Interestingly, this happened just around 2005, when the Internet became really popular. Strange. I wonder if there's some connection between the Internet and Sexy Pics... On the other hand, Game of Thrones had lotsa sex and that didn't seem to hurt at all.

[Robovski]

How do you not understand that I can be critical of something I enjoy otherwise?

[Admiral X]

So...you were just saying this to what...point it out?

Yeah, pretty much. I'm saying I can understand where other people are coming from. Which is a point I made previously. Which you quoted.

See the problem you've got Admiral X is that I'm not letting you cry about it but saying the simple thing "you don't like it, don't watch it"

Yeah, you certainly wouldn't want to make any changes to something you already like that might make it better or anything.

As for my position on fan service - I rather like it, I just feel that like many other storytelling elements, it can be done well or done poorly.

Also, nice to not tag me when replying to me, sure that's not trying to get the last word in at all.

Yeah, it's not like I'm literally quoting you or anything...

Also

I mean WOW!

Saying that because what a woman wears you can't take her seriously.

I apply that equally between the sexes, and it has nothing to do with objectification.

Jiminy Cricket Admiral X, do you HAVE to objectify a woman like that! Fans of T'Pol can think she's hot while also thinking she's smart! How can you sit there and judge others when you say "well she's wearing a catsuit so how smart can she actually be!"

It honestly baffles me that you could make an association between attractiveness and intelligence, because I sure didn't say that.