BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:48 pm
Determinism doesn't deride the concept of opportunity and choice.
Of course it does. How can you possibly have free will if everything is already decided for you? You are on a railroad from birth until death.
Because choice and agency. God is the one giving you "free will." He happens to know everything, but that doesn't mean that he's deciding for you.
It set up all the initial parameters, so yes it does.
Yep. It set up the parameters which included free will... There's nothing I've heard about God forcing you to acknowledge him, just that he's always with you .
BUT YOU HAVE NOT GOT FREE WILL. He has laid out a railroad for you. Everything, from hating him, to loving him, to worshipping him, to donating to the church, to being a different religion altogether is something that he already knows will happen and has decided for you. So YES, he is forcing you to worship or not to worship him.
Again, this whole thing does not stand up to an objective read.
Anyway, changing the subject slightly, I was thinking about death today. Am I the only one that gets a lot of comfort from the fact that you are not the only one that is going to die? As in, imagine that there actually were people who were born randomly immortal, and you aren't one of them? Can you imagine just how horrific that would actually be knowing that they would live forever and you are going to barely see out the century?
But as it is, rich or poor, man or woman, past or present, healthy or ill; everyone will eventually make the same journey to what lays beyond be it the afterlife or the ground. It is the one thing everyone has in common.
Darmani wrote: ↑Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:46 pm
No more so than it bothered me some are born retarded, with aids, or in countries where there is no TV or toys
Bit different. No toys verses death. Also, of course it doesn't bother you as immortality is a physical impossibility. This is a hypothetical scenario.
Oh, and friendly advice, the R word is fast becoming a high level slur. Best watch where you say that off the internet.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:48 pm
Determinism doesn't deride the concept of opportunity and choice.
Of course it does. How can you possibly have free will if everything is already decided for you? You are on a railroad from birth until death.
Because choice and agency. God is the one giving you "free will." He happens to know everything, but that doesn't mean that he's deciding for you.
It set up all the initial parameters, so yes it does.
Yep. It set up the parameters which included free will... There's nothing I've heard about God forcing you to acknowledge him, just that he's always with you .
BUT YOU HAVE NOT GOT FREE WILL. He has laid out a railroad for you. Everything, from hating him, to loving him, to worshipping him, to donating to the church, to being a different religion altogether is something that he already knows will happen and has decided for you. So YES, he is forcing you to worship or not to worship him.
Again, this whole thing does not stand up to an objective read.
Just from what you're saying, which is aside from objective determinism in our universal construct, that doesn't really pertain to every choice you make in your life. Preoccupation concerning faith in God or lack thereof doesn't extend to the variable of mundane choices you make.
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:48 pm
Determinism doesn't deride the concept of opportunity and choice.
Of course it does. How can you possibly have free will if everything is already decided for you? You are on a railroad from birth until death.
Because choice and agency. God is the one giving you "free will." He happens to know everything, but that doesn't mean that he's deciding for you.
It set up all the initial parameters, so yes it does.
Yep. It set up the parameters which included free will... There's nothing I've heard about God forcing you to acknowledge him, just that he's always with you .
BUT YOU HAVE NOT GOT FREE WILL. He has laid out a railroad for you. Everything, from hating him, to loving him, to worshipping him, to donating to the church, to being a different religion altogether is something that he already knows will happen and has decided for you. So YES, he is forcing you to worship or not to worship him.
Again, this whole thing does not stand up to an objective read.
Just from what you're saying, which is aside from objective determinism in our universal construct, that doesn't really pertain to every choice you make in your life. Preoccupation concerning faith in God or lack thereof doesn't extend to the variable of mundane choices you make.
But even the mundane choices have been made for you on a railroad. Shall I have ham in my sandwich or cheese? Already decided. Shall i wear red pants today? Already decided. Shall I eat cheese puffs or pork rinds? Already decided.
Shall I believe in God? God has already decided.
If the future already exists then nothing you do was ever really what YOU wanted to do.
BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:48 pm
Determinism doesn't deride the concept of opportunity and choice.
Of course it does. How can you possibly have free will if everything is already decided for you? You are on a railroad from birth until death.
Because choice and agency. God is the one giving you "free will." He happens to know everything, but that doesn't mean that he's deciding for you.
It set up all the initial parameters, so yes it does.
Yep. It set up the parameters which included free will... There's nothing I've heard about God forcing you to acknowledge him, just that he's always with you .
BUT YOU HAVE NOT GOT FREE WILL. He has laid out a railroad for you. Everything, from hating him, to loving him, to worshipping him, to donating to the church, to being a different religion altogether is something that he already knows will happen and has decided for you. So YES, he is forcing you to worship or not to worship him.
Again, this whole thing does not stand up to an objective read.
Just from what you're saying, which is aside from objective determinism in our universal construct, that doesn't really pertain to every choice you make in your life. Preoccupation concerning faith in God or lack thereof doesn't extend to the variable of mundane choices you make.
But even the mundane choices have been made for you on a railroad. Shall I have ham in my sandwich or cheese? Already decided. Shall i wear red pants today? Already decided. Shall I eat cheese puffs or pork rinds? Already decided.
Shall I believe in God? God has already decided.
If the future already exists then nothing you do was ever really what YOU wanted to do.
So, that's determinism. Or the basis for it at least. Predetermination knows that you will have either ham or cheese with a pretty high probability the simpleton could calculate in their head. That's changing goal posts a bit though. Instead of saying you have a choice of ham and cheese, you say you're going to eat something on that list or you won't, then again you might eat a sandwich with any general substance which includes something on the list. Ham or cheese is the choice that you are choosing directly within two different points of your own temptation.
Matter of fact, you can make just as solid of case you can for saying that emotions are the base programming of how we do things, thus everything we experience or do is a directive of our subjective will.
Spiritual gnosis of Sandwiches
Zeus don't really care. Zeus demands sacrifice and expex Humans will eat the leftovers however. Jehovah cares a lot: you are only allowed to eat CLEAN animals which have had the proper prayers sung over them and you can't butter the bread. Mustard and garlic are permitted flavours.
Worst of all is the God of Superlatives invented by Plato and Sir Thomas Aquinas who curses you to eat each and every Sandwich according to his ineffable cunning plan.
Self sealing stem bolts don't just seal themselves, you know.
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