Babylon 5: A Race Through Dark Places

[TachyonDrift]

Wow. Did you guys just miss the big question?

Did it not occur to anyone that Bester is right?

[Mecha82]

I agree with cdrood when it comes to Bester. He is some one who thinks he is right but he is clearly villain who we aren't meant to agree with.

[Steve]

Wow. Did you guys just miss the big question?

Did it not occur to anyone that Bester is right?

Right about what?

[FaxModem1]

That telepaths should be the masters and the mundanes should serve at their feet, of course. Isn't it obvious?

[Steve]

That telepaths should be the masters and the mundanes should serve at their feet, of course. Isn't it obvious?

Not really. I've heard convincing arguments that EarthGov has telepaths halfway through the genocide ladder, as defined by Gregory Stanton's stated stages of genocide (initially 8, he later expanded it to 10). And since Psi Corps were the enforcers of EarthGov law (and under the leadership of an EarthGov-appointed non-telepath), their dissolution doesn't necessarily undo that threat.

The ten stages of genocide:

[TachyonDrift]

Right in that un controlled telepaths are just about the most dangerous thing imaginable. If you don't see that, you're not thinking it through.

The trouble with all this is, and things like bringing up genocide, and yes, it's a terrible thing, is that discrimination and genocide are bad because we know the claimed reasons for doing so are shullbeach as humans are pretty much the same pretty much everywhere so it always boils down to one group of batrads murdering people because they just kinda want to.

That isn't the case with telepaths. They ARE different. They ARE dangerous. They ARE getting MORE dangerous.

The best case you could have, because these differences are very, very real, is to have the 'good' ones police the 'bad' ones, but the nature of TPs dictates that in order to do so ALL of them must be so policed. Only TPs can detect other TPs. Any TP would and must be a tremendously disruptive factor to any non-TP they encounter. Simply being aware of the moods of those around you would be impossible to avoid.

Take a simple, easy example. We know TPs's abilities kick in around the onset of puberty. Soon these TPs can read feelings and surface thoughts. So what happens when a TP thinks that normie is hot and they'd maybe like to do the squishy squishy? Well, the TP has one hell of an advantage. So much an advantage, I'd suggest that reasoned consent could be violated.

What about a job interview? Bank loans? Casinos? Elections?

You might suggest that they might ignore these advantages, and I'd say that's immensley naive. I'm fairly certain you couldn't possibly do so, even if you wanted to.

And sure, it's not their fault. We have no idea what the Vorlons did to turn them into weapons, but we do know that happened. We know it's somehow genetic because the Corps' genetic experiments keep unlocking new levels. We know that if there even are limits on those levels, they've almost deity like. Jason Ironheart was capable of wiping out the whole of B5 when his subconscious started throwing a paddy. Lyta's way, way beyond any TP seen aside from JI.

I know, most people here seem to think the solutions to any of these sorts of issues is 'Well, d'uh, we'll just change human nature by force...' and don't get that that way of thinking makes them the bad guys. Fine and all.

It won't change that Psy-Corps is the kindest way of dealing with a very real, very serious problem, and the only other way would inevitably end up as genocide. As such, Bester is right.

[Beastro]

Right in that un controlled telepaths are just about the most dangerous thing imaginable. If you don't see that, you're not thinking it through.

The trouble with all this is, and things like bringing up genocide, and yes, it's a terrible thing, is that discrimination and genocide are bad because we know the claimed reasons for doing so are shullbeach as humans are pretty much the same pretty much everywhere so it always boils down to one group of batrads murdering people because they just kinda want to.

That isn't the case with telepaths. They ARE different. They ARE dangerous. They ARE getting MORE dangerous.

The issue for me is Bester's base sentiment reflects the danger himself. He looks on telepaths as entirely different from other people, and I wouldn't be surprised if he and the rest of PsyCorps upper echelons were filled by telepaths that would ideally want normals subordinate to a telepath elite, but are too sensible to realize that it's unworkable, if only because of their lack of numbers.

Reflecting on it, a sticky issue with B5 is how well other races deal with their telepaths. One could say that's because they're aliens, but they're alike enough for that to strain things.

That's especially so when keeping in mind the Centauri, their outlook and their love of backstabbing and scheming. I could see them winding up either exterminating most of theirs for their meddling or their Republic taking on the above mentioned form of a telepath elite enforcing rule over the rest.

[FaxModem1]

Right in that un controlled telepaths are just about the most dangerous thing imaginable. If you don't see that, you're not thinking it through.

The trouble with all this is, and things like bringing up genocide, and yes, it's a terrible thing, is that discrimination and genocide are bad because we know the claimed reasons for doing so are shullbeach as humans are pretty much the same pretty much everywhere so it always boils down to one group of batrads murdering people because they just kinda want to.

That isn't the case with telepaths. They ARE different. They ARE dangerous. They ARE getting MORE dangerous.

The issue for me is Bester's base sentiment reflects the danger himself. He looks on telepaths as entirely different from other people, and I wouldn't be surprised if he and the rest of PsyCorps upper echelons were filled by telepaths that would ideally want normals subordinate to a telepath elite, but are too sensible to realize that it's unworkable, if only because of their lack of numbers.

Reflecting on it, a sticky issue with B5 is how well other races deal with their telepaths. One could say that's because they're aliens, but they're alike enough for that to strain things.

That's especially so when keeping in mind the Centauri, their outlook and their love of backstabbing and scheming. I could see them winding up either exterminating most of theirs for their meddling or their Republic taking on the above mentioned form of a telepath elite enforcing rule over the rest.

Canon is that Centauri telepaths are just contractors for hire and free to do what they want. This is probably due to the fact that they're all naturally telepathic to an extent(able to dream how they die and all that), and have had it a minority in their people for so long that they are just used to it.

[Mecha82]

Mimbari hold they telepaths in high regard and allow them to follow they calling so unlike humans Mimbari don't fear they telepaths. Then again IIRC way EA treats they telepaths is basically based on Shadow influence because Shadow ships are weal to telepaths while Mimbari have been working with Vorlons.

[Darth Wedgius]

It might be a plot hole that Centauri telepaths don't run their civilization. The Centauri have a lot of government intrigue going on, including some pretty brutal stuff. Knowing what the other guy is thinking, or clouding their judgement at a proper time, would be a huge advantage.

The Mimbari seem more honor-bound on the surface, but we've seen them find... creative ways of interpreting their code, ways that let them get what they want. The same might apply to them.