SG-1: Meridian

[SiskosMuthaFknPmphnd]

You gotta love the hypocrisy of the SGC in this.

"You can't build bombs with this stuff. It's too dangerous! We want it to build shields!"

A couple years later they have a shit-load of Naquadria based bombs "designed solely for the purpose of vaporizing Stargates and anything else in a one-hundred mile radius. Now we have a number of these god-awful things at our disposal." They didn't just build these things on a whim right then and there. They were likely developing the technology for some time before.

[Wargriffin]

Ahh this one

[...] yet your simple three word comment makes me feel as if there's a beef there.

So... Help me out, please.

Yes its the one where he ascends... the first time

Heh, the question actually was: You seem to not be too enthusiastic about the episode. If that perception is true, then why is that the case?

No I actually like this episode cause Daniel's self examinations is one of the most Honest things you'll ever see

Most people would be making excuses for their failures or trying to figure a way to bargain for Ascension 'IE the Squeak into Heaven mentality

Daniel is This is the end... Fucking Finally

plus it works really well when paired with Abyss

"You're a better man than that"

"THATS WHERE YOU'RE WRONG!"

"Walking the Great Path brings great responsibility"

Uh, yeah Oma. You Ascended make Tolkien's Valar look like outrageously proactive interventionists. I understand why that is for story purposes. An Ascended would be an easy answer for most problems, but it makes it what she said look dishonest.

Jack is incredibly jaded at this point, isn't he?

To be fair to Oma De Sala, we see how far that can go if you're not careful. The Ori are proof that constant interference can lead to theocracy, which leads to people not finding their own ascension and power, and viewing lower tier people as tools for your own goals, if not just a fuel source.

That said, they later retconned this to have Oma be the outlier, and the rest of the Ancients could give less of a rat's ass about helping the lower powers, making her walk a tight rope of only helping people when she can get away with it.

Telling people, "Hey, I'm the only one giving a shot that you don't die and can have a life after this one" isn't the best sales pitch.

The Ancients just got turned into a bunch of neglectful 'I got mine' Elitist bastards who only think their safe cause They're Ascended once you realize how much the Milky way and Pegasus problems ARE THEIR FUCKING FAULT and the ones that tried to fix the problem got ostracized and outright hunted down.

It be one thing if they were trying to make a point... but half the time THEY MISS THE FUCKING POINT and are actively making it worse

Like Anubis is just the start of the Iceberg


Contrast the Asgard... who are pretty much the Ideal of what people think a Benevolent Alien race would be like... Oh Yeah They are dying out cause their BFFs the ancients can't be Arsed to help them


bunch of pricks

[Sir Will]

Oh yeah, The Ancients suck. Always leaving their dangerous shit lying around.

[clearspira]

The Ancients are early Picard, Riker and Janeway. The Federation would love the Ancients.

[Ghilz]

Basically after everything he had went through Daniel died and then later on come back to life. I can't think another character in SG1 who was as much universe's punching bag as he was. After all series started with his wife being captured and turned into host for goa'uld and he never managed to get her back. In that sense his optimism was amazing because he was able to keep it so long after everything that had happened to him and those that he cares about. Long enough for him to influence Jonas.

Daniel Jackson is Harry Kim with a spine.

And a soul, and charisma, and a functioning brain, and ethics, and appeal...

[Shuboy07]

I also pinpoint this the exact moment that Stargate went from a sci-fi show grounded in reality to its gentle slope into its more ridiculous later years.

If I recall, this episode was also the second to last episode on Showtime. I wonder if Sci-Fi Channel instituted some changes or the writers realized they had more freedom on a new network?

Also from what I remember from this time, Michael Shanks just wanted a break from the show. Since he still made guest appearances in Season Six (as Daniel and Thor), it was clear he wasn't leaving and the writers left a plot line in place to bring him back.

[Mickey_Rat15]

"Walking the Great Path brings great responsibility"

Uh, yeah Oma. You Ascended make Tolkien's Valar look like outrageously proactive interventionists. I understand why that is for story purposes. An Ascended would be an easy answer for most problems, but it makes it what she said look dishonest.

Jack is incredibly jaded at this point, isn't he?

To be fair to Oma De Sala, we see how far that can go if you're not careful. The Ori are proof that constant interference can lead to theocracy, which leads to people not finding their own ascension and power, and viewing lower tier people as tools for your own goals, if not just a fuel source.

That said, they later retconned this to have Oma be the outlier, and the rest of the Ancients could give less of a rat's ass about helping the lower powers, making her walk a tight rope of only helping people when she can get away with it.

Telling people, "Hey, I'm the only one giving a shot that you don't die and can have a life after this one" isn't the best sales pitch.

You are right about all that, but it makes what she said to Daniel raise some false expectations on his part which he was understandably upset about later.

[Fianna]

I have an easy time believing that, among Ascended beings, there are just as many ideological splits as there are among as corporeal folk. So while many of them might like to help humans and other oppressed species, you'll probably also have some who'd want to throw their support behind the Goa'uld, and others you'd support other factions, and some who'd think that the current reality is so horribly flawed (inevitability of entropy and death and all that) that the best thing is to scrap the whole universe and rebuild it from scratch.

In that sort of framework, a non-intervention policy makes a lot of sense; beats turning our reality into a warzone for godlike beings.

[Cheerilee]

Also from what I remember from this time, Michael Shanks just wanted a break from the show. Since he still made guest appearances in Season Six (as Daniel and Thor), it was clear he wasn't leaving and the writers left a plot line in place to bring him back.

IIRC, Michael Shanks left because he was dissatisfied with his character's direction.

Daniel originally joined the SGC to try and rescue his wife. But then she died in season 3. So he shifted goals and tried to rescue his late wife's rape-son. Nope, that effort wasn't needed, because Oma Desalla can care for the kid better than Daniel can. Skaara? He was more of a "Jack" goal, and got rescued in season 3. And Apophis (the origin of Daniel's pain) got killed in the season 5 opener (this was presumably the final straw).

So why is Daniel still there? He's just there because he's there. He's hanging out with some friends. He has no real reason to be there. So Michael Shanks asked them to kill him off instead of letting his character stagnate, and he left with Oma Desalla (it's odd that this episode never mentioned Daniel joining his not-son on this journey).

I don't believe the writers intended to leave hooks to potentially bring Daniel back, they just didn't rule out guest appearances. The fans didn't accept Jonas/wanted Daniel back, so the writers figured out how to tie Anubis to Daniel through the Ancients, which gave Michael Shanks (who was regretting his decision to leave) a solid excuse to come back.

[FaxModem1]

I do regret we didn't see more of the Harhesis. Seeing Daniel as an ascended parent would have opened some interesting paths dramatically. Like Q and q, only with less omnipotent jackass laughs and more Buddhist style contemplation.