TOS - Metamorphosis

[Swiftbow]

I remembered Cochrane probably mostly because I read the Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens novel Federation, which brings them back for a bit, and gives Cochrane a backstory. But the novel doesn't jibe with the First Contact.

By coincidence, I'd been thinking about this episode and the whole male/female thing being universal. I used to think it was a bit of a stretch to expect that on most other worlds, but I'd been reconsidering. Of course male and female don't cover everything, but on earth male and female seem to have developed in many different ways. The X/Y thing for most mammals (I'm sure that's The Bad Touch song was talking about), the Z/W system found in birds and some reptiles, the XX/X0 system, temperature-dependent systems, etc., in a myriad of ways. Nemo's dad should have become his mother after the unfortunate predatory encounter early in the movie.

Not that the bigger critter is always the male (e.g., hyenas) or the one with the egg carries the young the whole time (seahorses), and there are species with only females (e.g., New Mexico whiptail). Obviously a species with only males isn't going to work, and not just because they'd be playing video games the whole time.

But it does seem to happen enough that there's probably a utility making it not unlikely elsewhere.

I think it's because it is ultimately the most effective system for complex lifeforms that need to adapt to their environments. Single sex organisms do not change as readily because, by default, all their offspring are clones. Mutations obviously happen, but that can cause extinction as well as adaptation, because the mutation will automatically propagate to all future generations (because of the cloning thing.)

Whereas sexual reproduction allows for both natural and artificial selection, and ultimately to more intelligence (the creatures choosing their own mates).

Some Trek episodes, of course, tried to bring in a 3rd gender. But how or why would such a thing develop? There's no adaptational reason that one could successfully make. If such a thing DID manage to occur, evolution would tend to favor members of the species that adapted to do without the 3rd gender, and it would disappear over time.

The other aspects of male/female are a result of culture and nurture. Whichever parent ends up spending the most time with the young will tend toward feminine aspects, because babies are in need of that. Likewise, the "defender" of a family group will take on masculine traits to protect against predators.

So yeah... I think it's safe to say that we would discover male/female species as soon as we discover complex organisms outside Earth. Assuredly there will be differences... but there will be a lot of common ground as well.

[GreyICE]

I think when considering extraterrestrial life, you should chuck all notions right out the window. Any assumption you make is liable to be wrong. It's tempting to think that "the way it did happen" is "the way it must happen" but this is just an error in logic. Even assuming they have DNA is making too large of an assumption.

Science should always acknowledge what it doesn't know, and non-terrestrial life is one of the biggest unknowns.

[Percysowner]

Well plants are bisexual, the scientific term is monoecious,. They have both male and female structure in every plant (pistils and stamens) , so there is that as an option for reproduction that isn't cloning. Some trees are unisex i.e. they produce both male and female flowers. Evolution and reproduction variants are more varied than we think.

Many trees do have genders, and since urban planners didn't want trees that drop fruit and flowers in the cities they planted mostly male trees in urban areas. My tree allergic self is reminded of this every spring as waves and waves of pollen, with the purpose of finding the female trees fill the air. Urban planning has made spring really uncomfortable for me.

[chaos42]

i don't think it was him trying to overcome it but more him trying to deflect accusations. and to make his public image look good.

when i was young i never knew most of these things because all the offical magazines and such never told you about what was really going on.

[Makeshift Python]

So James Cromwell was playing a 33 year old Cochrane in First Contact...

Funnily the part was originally offered to Tom Hanks, but he couldn't take it because he was directing THAT THING YOU DO. Despite being miscast as far as ages go, I really dug Cromwell in the role. On a similar topic, Joe Pesci was 46 when he shot GOODFELLAS, despite the fact that the person he played was supposed to be in his 20s.

[J!!]

So James Cromwell was playing a 33 year old Cochrane in First Contact...

youtu.be/uBzbf7eQwvo

[Swiftbow]

I think when considering extraterrestrial life, you should chuck all notions right out the window. Any assumption you make is liable to be wrong. It's tempting to think that "the way it did happen" is "the way it must happen" but this is just an error in logic. Even assuming they have DNA is making too large of an assumption.

Science should always acknowledge what it doesn't know, and non-terrestrial life is one of the biggest unknowns.

I don't think having DNA or not is relevant. There are SOME things we can probably (agreed, not definitely) assume for something to be able to advance to the level of sentient/sapient being.
- Reproduce, obviously
- Be able to adapt to its environment
- Be able to adapt its environment to itself

Some form of binary sharing of genetic data (in whatever form) has proven on Earth to be the most efficient system for combing reproduction and adaptation. Could a species advance considerably with non-binary reproduction? Arguably yes, but the process would be MUCH slower. Look at Earth history: The Cambrian explosion correlates very closely with the development of sexual reproduction. And look how long life existed BEFORE that happened. It took a long time to evolve, but when it did... boy howdy.

[GreyICE]

Actually bacteria have a more efficient system of sharing genetic information. They swap sequences while still living, giving them huge legs up on multicellular life in information sharing. However we ended up with this system because it was the one solution evolution happened to hit on for having some flexibility (necessary for evolution) without the organism becoming incompatible with itself. Like all things in evolution, it's a compromise, and not necessarily the one another life form would hit on.

In fact, in many ways what DNA does is wacky. If two authors have both written good, but not great books, and want to improve on the novel, they don't go and merge the two novels together to see how the new novel would read. That's just confusing. So if you can imagine any other system of refinement and improvement, that is on the table.

[Riedquat]

I think when considering extraterrestrial life, you should chuck all notions right out the window. Any assumption you make is liable to be wrong. It's tempting to think that "the way it did happen" is "the way it must happen" but this is just an error in logic. Even assuming they have DNA is making too large of an assumption.

Science should always acknowledge what it doesn't know, and non-terrestrial life is one of the biggest unknowns.

We also need to acknowledge what we do know and to be logical about the limits. If we ever discover extraterrestrial life there will undoubtedly be completely unexpected, unimagined differences but also surprising similarities since there will almost certainly be some common problems to solve, at least in similar environments. Making things implausibly different for the sake of it and handwaving that away with "they're aliens" is just as much a mistake of making them all humans with lumpy foreheads (and at least the latter has the excuse on film and TV of keeping costs manageable by employing human actors).

[Riedquat]

In fact, in many ways what DNA does is wacky. If two authors have both written good, but not great books, and want to improve on the novel, they don't go and merge the two novels together to see how the new novel would read. That's just confusing.

But if you've got two machines, both with good and bad parts of their designs, an improved one will take aspects of both.

So if you can imagine any other system of refinement and improvement, that is on the table.

Sure, but you also need to ask the question then why hasn't it happened on Earth?