Sfdebris.net

Scififan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:04 pm Even thought it was off screen, I loved the fight between Mercy and Harley.

Is it me or did Mercy never catch on like Harley did, maybe it the outfit.

Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:33 am
Is it me or did Mercy never catch on like Harley did, maybe it the outfit.

IDK about Mercy in comics, but she was around for 2019's Reign of the Supermen movie, still as Lex Luthor's primary henchwoman. So she's a decently long-running character.

MerelyAFan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:41 am What's funny is that Batman Beyond (without necessarily intending to) ended up deconstructing his portrayal in the DCAU pretty hard; with the focus on his skills and growing coldness eventually leading him to be a solitary old man in a still troubled Gotham barely keeping any contact with people before meeting Terry.

What's especially funny about that is that Batman Beyond came out years before Justice League did and the showrunners really doubled down on their Bat Love.

stellar_coyote wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:19 am

MerelyAFan wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:41 am What's funny is that Batman Beyond (without necessarily intending to) ended up deconstructing his portrayal in the DCAU pretty hard; with the focus on his skills and growing coldness eventually leading him to be a solitary old man in a still troubled Gotham barely keeping any contact with people before meeting Terry.

What's especially funny about that is that Batman Beyond came out years before Justice League did and the showrunners really doubled down on their Bat Love.

I thought the movie Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker explained the character change. In BtaS he is concerned for his partner but generally alright. He has some trust issues in JL and JLU, but generally works. But seriously harm one of his sons? Shook him to his core. He was almost as hurt as Tim was. But because he was Batman no one noticed. And thus no one helped him get past in beyond pushing everyone away with his cold veneer. You see glimmers of the old Bruce when he fears for Terry. Shouting to an intercom in fear or suiting up in a batsuit despite it might kill him. Then the one threat that really hurt someone he cares about resurfaced. And he got super cold to force Terry to quit. Just to get him out of the gun sights. (It didn't work. But he was trying.)

As for the Bat agenda in JL. I think this is an unintended consequence of Batman not having powers. So he has to be the smart one to solve problems with things other than speed or brawn. On point, note how many plans are solved by the powers themselves and how much are handled by thought.

Which brings us to this trilogy. Joker is underestimated because he is thwarted by someone with no powers. Even Lex initially writes both off. To show how dangerous both men truly are. They need to show they can stand at those levels. Superman is not dumb. But is not the tactical genius or detective Batman is. So to show this he has to hold the idiot ball when Batman is there because they are not two different disciplines and thus can show mental strength in their own fields. Joker is dangerous not just because he comes from odd directions. But also because those in Metropolis casually and arrogantly dismiss him. Note when Superman arrives to rescue Lois he does not even attempt to subdue Joker. He just walks past him to get the girl down. 'This guy is no threat'. And Joker takes him down a peg for that arrogance. If Superman had not let his pride get in the way then it actually would have been a short performance. As he would have captured the Joker and Harley swiftly, then gotten Lois out safely.

Ikiry0 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:30 am I do like this crossover. I do feel like it has Batman's stuff overshadow Superman's a bit though. Joker thoroughly beats Supes *and* Lex, requiring Batman without really much turnaround save the robot in the printing machine (Which is then immediately followed up by Batman beating up bigger robots). I'd have rather liked Supes to get in a little more of a showing as a smart person himself, rather than pretty constantly falling into the Joker's/Batman's tricks.

Still, that's a very minor nitpick and I do overall love this crossover.

Honestly I agree

Lex never gets one over on Joker nor does Sups but thats kinda the problem with Bat characters?

Everybody HAS to play down to their level

Lex by all definition is gonna pull out a Superman killer power suit that would make Toney Stark blush

Bruce doesn't tend to bring gear for WWIII on his person and Joker... well TAS Joker pretty much folds like a paper plate once you get past his tricks

Basically watching Sups Knock Joker Da Fuck out would be cathartic but then thats it Joker's done

I feel like thats the real reason, If you let Clark outsmart the clown.


then again Crossover tend to have that problem where one villain naturally dominates the story


IE Look at Spiderman and Sups crossovers

the first one is Doc Oct and Lex Luthor... Doesn't take long to figure out whose the second banana

of course the sequel is alittle bit better in that the secondary villain is atleast used better... since its

DOCTOR FUCKING DOOM and Parasite

It's a fundamental problem where you have a shared universe of wildly different power levels. Superman and Squirrel Girl are essentially gods amongst men; it's exceedingly difficult for them to believably share space with the likes of Batman and Nick Fury without completely taking over the action. It takes really, really, really good writing to make it work in a believable manner.

Batman tends to come off kind of underwhelming in JL -- only though in comparison to how he manages his own turf. His interaction with Superman always does pretty good in spite of that, and he carries the dark JL stories pretty well.

Luthor was still a "legitimate businessman" during Superman: TAS. He couldn't just go around building power armors for himself. Also, at this point in the DCAU, there hasn't been as much exposure to alien tech or magic. Superman was still working with STAR Labs to figure out Kryptonian technology.

The DCAU is perhaps only eclipsed the the MCU in terms of creating a coherent decade-long universe. The Marvel animated universe did try to some success though, the 90's Spider-Man and X-Men were in the same continuity. I seem to recall there also being some Fantastic Four, Iron Man and Hulk cartoons about this time that got referenced too.

I can't really say what I prefer - DCAU or 90s Marvel - I just know they got me into comics more than anything else did. I do remember what put me OFF Marvel cartoons though and that was when they rebooted the 90s cartoons in the 00s with X-Men Evolution and X-Men Wolverine. ''Evolution'' wasn't that bad looking back; ''Wolverine'' was pants. There really was a period between this cartoon and the X-Men live action films where he became a right little Spotlight Hog.

Yeah, Wolverine does that a lot. >_>