SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

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Archanubis
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Re: SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

Post by Archanubis »

Mecha82 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:39 pm
Archanubis wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:48 pm
Mecha82 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:56 pmAfter all not all players are willing to play on side of outright evil faction
Well, poo, there go my dreams of murdering Autobots as part of an all Decepticon faction. :twisted: :P
Clearly those players don't include you then. Seems to me like your favorite part of WoC and FoC are Decepticon parts.
Well, I won't lie, there was a certain part of me that finds a certain level of satisfaction smashing Megatron into the pavement as Metroplex, or taking Grimlock and cutting a swath of destruction through the Decepticon facilities. Plus abusing Starscream is always fun, no matter which faction is played.

Besides, we know the Autobots were never an army of pure paladins from the get go - rather like Star Wars' Republic. ;)
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Re: SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

Post by Independent George »

LordUltimus wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:41 pm What republic class character would you like to see Chuck take on first?
Smuggler. That was the only Republic class that I really enjoyed, and the only one where playing a dark side character made perfect sense. You typically got dark side points for demanding money for services such as, you know... smuggling. It was refreshing to play a pragmatic, self-interested evil instead of a bloodthirsty psychopath.

Also, you got to groin kick people. A lot.
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Re: SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

Post by Madner Kami »

Archanubis wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:48 pm
Mecha82 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:56 pmAfter all not all players are willing to play on side of outright evil faction
Well, poo, there go my dreams of murdering Autobots as part of an all Decepticon faction. :twisted: :P
Go play Stellaris and create a machine empire. At some point you'll end up with a splintering, if you don't try your best to avoid it and then you can have your genocide, genocidal war or just a costly civil war.
"If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?
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Re: SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

Post by Jonathan101 »

Mecha82 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:39 pm
Deledrius wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:46 pm I see it as mostly condemning the hypocrisy when it arises, which I feel is a pretty fair thing to do.
You have point there. Seems to me after rethinking things that maybe that's how Republic and Jedi are written in TOR. As bunch of hypocrites while Sith are written to be more open about way they are without pretending to be good.
People who openly hate and complain about hypocrisy in others are often the biggest hypocrites of all. Especially if they are evil like the Sith.

It's just primitive guilt or annoyance at work. They don't like or understand being called out on their own heinous crimes, so they actively look out for and jump down the throat of people seen as good or even just normal any time they act even slightly bad, either because it eases their own conscience or just because it reinforces and justifies their own behaviour and view of the world.

It usually involves ignoring or not caring about context or reasoning, or having strawman ideas about the other side and holding them to ridiculously high standards so you can criticise them more easily.

The Sith are in fact typically MASSIVE hypocrites because they think that they are stronger and smarter better than everyone and should be free to do what they like, yet hate it when they are on the receiving end of that treatment either because someone stronger or smarter comes along, or because their own strength or cunning fails them because in fact hard reality often doesn't give a sh*t about how strong or smart or powerful you are, or think you are.

To paraphrase one Star Wars comic, "might makes right" is a dumb philosophy that is usually abandoned the moment someone stronger comes onto the scene. The Sith believe the strong should rule the weak because they don't see themselves as weak, when in fact there are always people stronger than them and sometimes those people are not Sith but Jedi or members of the Republic, and that pisses them off because that flies in the face of the reality they have constructed for themselves so they magnify every failing of their opponents just to protect their own egos.

Chuck is playing the Sith Warrior as a sort of self-righteous Sith who thinks that the can make it to the top without being "too" evil, who only kills when they are forced to, and yet Chuck seems to get legitimately angry when other characters get mad at him for slaughtering everyone in his path because he somehow sees all of his killings as done in self-defence (even though they are only attacking him for things like breaking into their homes, and often he is there to kidnap or kill someone). Whether it's just his character or if Chuck himself believes it, his narration makes the Sith Warrior sound like they haven't done anything really wrong or anything they haven't been forced to do which is absolute B.S. given his character is the willing servant of an evil Sith Lord and is driven by personal survival and ambition. He acts like the Jedi and Republic agents who want to fight or kill him on sight are being irrational and self-righteous because he's really a "nice" Sith Lord, when in reality that would still make him extremely evil and if they knew the full details of his missions and agenda then they probably SHOULD attack him on sight anyway. He's trying to achieve victory for the Sith and he thinks that the Jedi and republic are the real assholes somehow.

Hypocrites who hate other hypocrites are the worst sort of hypocrite.
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Re: SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

Post by hammerofglass »

To steal a line from Order of the Stick, you can't really be a hypocrite if your only guiding principal is "do whatever is best for you".

The Sith believe the strong should rule the weak, but they don't expect the weak to be happy about it.
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Karha of Honor
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Re: SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

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mathewgsmith wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:47 am To steal a line from Order of the Stick, you can't really be a hypocrite if your only guiding principal is "do whatever is best for you".

The Sith believe the strong should rule the weak, but they don't expect the weak to be happy about it.
Star Wars = fairy tale logic...

Every other authoritarian government in history had at least a privileged etnhnic group who the rulers believed shoudl be somewhat happy about it.

It's just how it works.
Last edited by Karha of Honor on Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

Post by Riedquat »

mathewgsmith wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:47 am To steal a line from Order of the Stick, you can't really be a hypocrite if your only guiding principal is "do whatever is best for you".

The Sith believe the strong should rule the weak, but they don't expect the weak to be happy about it.
You can be a hypocrite if those principles get thrown out of the window as soon as someone starts trampling over you with them. Things like "the strong should rule the weak" are usually trotted out by people who have (possibly more through luck than anything else) got into a position of authority and are then trying to justify it and boost their own egos.
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Re: SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

Post by SpacePaladin »

Riedquat wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:44 am
mathewgsmith wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:47 am To steal a line from Order of the Stick, you can't really be a hypocrite if your only guiding principal is "do whatever is best for you".

The Sith believe the strong should rule the weak, but they don't expect the weak to be happy about it.
You can be a hypocrite if those principles get thrown out of the window as soon as someone starts trampling over you with them.
True. Loki in that webcomic shows he's not a hypocrite when his cleric abandons a major battle he has a massive stake in for her own self-interest, and Loki is proud of her for so diligently abiding by his teachings.
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Re: SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

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LordUltimus wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:41 pm What republic class character would you like to see Chuck take on first?
I'm torn between Smuggler and Jedi Knight.
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Steve
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Re: SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

Post by Steve »

Riedquat wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:44 am
mathewgsmith wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:47 am To steal a line from Order of the Stick, you can't really be a hypocrite if your only guiding principal is "do whatever is best for you".

The Sith believe the strong should rule the weak, but they don't expect the weak to be happy about it.
You can be a hypocrite if those principles get thrown out of the window as soon as someone starts trampling over you with them. Things like "the strong should rule the weak" are usually trotted out by people who have (possibly more through luck than anything else) got into a position of authority and are then trying to justify it and boost their own egos.
Thucycides' "Melian Dialogue" is probably one of the best examples of how that thinking can work. The Athenians justify their attack on Melos in terms devoid of any real moral justification: "We're stronger than you and yet don't rule you, therefore we must take over and rule you or people will think we're scared of you and think they can fight us". The Melians' defense is ignored and their invocation of hope that someone will aid them dismissed as a fantasy leading them astray. "The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must", with the insistence that they have not made these rules and are as susceptible to them as anyone else (which the Melians point out by saying someone may do the same thing to them one day).

Of course, this had a sad ending: the Melians were ground down in the siege and the survivors sold into slavery. And even Athens' military defeat in the war with Sparta couldn't undo this (indeed, Athens was left intact, merely stripped of their empire of tributaries).
"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia

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