SW The Old Republic: Sith Warrior

[hammerofglass]

To steal a line from Order of the Stick, you can't really be a hypocrite if your only guiding principal is "do whatever is best for you".

The Sith believe the strong should rule the weak, but they don't expect the weak to be happy about it.

You can be a hypocrite if those principles get thrown out of the window as soon as someone starts trampling over you with them. Things like "the strong should rule the weak" are usually trotted out by people who have (possibly more through luck than anything else) got into a position of authority and are then trying to justify it and boost their own egos.

Resenting those with power over you and ultimately murdering them for it is an explicit part of their principles. The later Rule of Two made it their ONLY organizing principle.

When they're not on top they plot to BE on top and destroy those who are, working from the shadows for generations if need be. They don't sit around complaining that it's not fair.

"Through victory my chains are broken".

[hammerofglass]

What republic class character would you like to see Chuck take on first?

Jedi Knight. There's a whole subtext to the Warrior story that only becomes obvious if you know that one.

Plus all the expansions from Shadow of Revan on assume you know things that were only explained in that class story. Might make the later videos with a full Imperial party he teased a bit confusing if he doesn't at least summarize it.

[Riedquat]

To steal a line from Order of the Stick, you can't really be a hypocrite if your only guiding principal is "do whatever is best for you".

The Sith believe the strong should rule the weak, but they don't expect the weak to be happy about it.

You can be a hypocrite if those principles get thrown out of the window as soon as someone starts trampling over you with them. Things like "the strong should rule the weak" are usually trotted out by people who have (possibly more through luck than anything else) got into a position of authority and are then trying to justify it and boost their own egos.

Resenting those with power over you and ultimately murdering them for it is an explicit part of their principles. The later Rule of Two made it their ONLY organizing principle.

When they're not on top they plot to BE on top and destroy those who are, working from the shadows for generations if need be. They don't sit around complaining that it's not fair.

"Through victory my chains are broken".

If they truly believe that the strong should rule the weak the should accept defeat because clearly they're not the strongest. Aren't there any examples of them complaining about being ruled by the weak when they're not top dog?

[Jonathan101]

To steal a line from Order of the Stick, you can't really be a hypocrite if your only guiding principal is "do whatever is best for you".

The Sith believe the strong should rule the weak, but they don't expect the weak to be happy about it.

You can be a hypocrite if those principles get thrown out of the window as soon as someone starts trampling over you with them. Things like "the strong should rule the weak" are usually trotted out by people who have (possibly more through luck than anything else) got into a position of authority and are then trying to justify it and boost their own egos.

Resenting those with power over you and ultimately murdering them for it is an explicit part of their principles. The later Rule of Two made it their ONLY organizing principle.

When they're not on top they plot to BE on top and destroy those who are, working from the shadows for generations if need be. They don't sit around complaining that it's not fair.

"Through victory my chains are broken".

If they truly believe that the strong should rule the weak the should accept defeat because clearly they're not the strongest. Aren't there any examples of them complaining about being ruled by the weak when they're not top dog?

Basically this is their whole issue with the Jedi and the Republic- by rights such people shouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as they are because that the Dark Side and Social Darwinism are the true path to real power, yet at the end of the day the Jedi and the Republic survived for thousands and thousands of years while the Sith, after scoring initial victories, end up getting defeated.

I think the more common sort of hypocrisy I've seen in Sith though is the delusional belief that they got to where they were on their own, even when their story shows them being heavily reliant on others.

Bane for instance saw himself as a completely self-reliant person and built his philosophy around that, yet he only escaped the mining colony he was on because a bartender friend helped him; he survived the Sith Wars partly because of his teammates in the squad he was on (he would later tell himself that no he never relied on them at all); he was saved from execution for defying orders by the intervention of the Sith Lords who saw his potential; he was utterly broken and defeatist after losing a fight to a rival apprentice until Githany came along and taught him, and encouraged him to seek out Kasim for tutoring in duelling; he abandoned the Brotherhood after he thought they had taught him everything he could yet still felt the need to seek out yet another teacher, which he fund in the form of the Revan Holocron; he needed Zannah and other Holocrons to learn how to create his own Holocron...

Plagueis also looked down on 99.9% of the population as being nothing but mere pawns in the Sith Grand Plan at best and ignorant puppets of the Force at worst, yet he himself was the product of his masters' eugenics experiments and didn't make a move against his master until the Dark Side whispered in his ear "it's your time". Not to mention Palpatine claiming that he played him like a fiddle since the day they met.

Kreia hates the Force and hates that the Jedi and Sith are so dependant on it, as well as believing that it manipulates the lives of everyone in the galaxy, yet she uses it more than pretty much any other Force user alive (granted, she helped to kill most of the others), to the point where she can't even see without the use of it.

etc.

[Riedquat]

Kreia hates the Force and hates that the Jedi and Sith are so dependant on it, as well as believing that it manipulates the lives of everyone in the galaxy, yet she uses it more than pretty much any other Force user alive (granted, she helped to kill most of the others), to the point where she can't even see without the use of it.

I've not played KOTOR 2 so there may be more to her character that means this isn't accurate, but on that point - not necessarily hypocritical. You can hate what you're dependent on and sometimes making use of something you hate is the only way to get rid of it, otherwise you just get trampled by other people who use it. True it's the sort of thinking that leads to arms races but no-one has ever come up with much of a way to avoid them.

[hammerofglass]

To steal a line from Order of the Stick, you can't really be a hypocrite if your only guiding principal is "do whatever is best for you".

The Sith believe the strong should rule the weak, but they don't expect the weak to be happy about it.

You can be a hypocrite if those principles get thrown out of the window as soon as someone starts trampling over you with them. Things like "the strong should rule the weak" are usually trotted out by people who have (possibly more through luck than anything else) got into a position of authority and are then trying to justify it and boost their own egos.

Resenting those with power over you and ultimately murdering them for it is an explicit part of their principles. The later Rule of Two made it their ONLY organizing principle.

When they're not on top they plot to BE on top and destroy those who are, working from the shadows for generations if need be. They don't sit around complaining that it's not fair.

"Through victory my chains are broken".

If they truly believe that the strong should rule the weak the should accept defeat because clearly they're not the strongest. Aren't there any examples of them complaining about being ruled by the weak when they're not top dog?

I think the more common sort of hypocrisy I've seen in Sith though is the delusional belief that they got to where they were on their own, even when their story shows them being heavily reliant on others.

That's really more denial and narcissism than outright hypocrisy.

If they actually did submit but kept spouting the same rhetoric, that would be hypocritical. Everything about them is geared towards keeping conflict going eternally. That's exactly why they always lose; they immediately collapse into infighting as soon as they see the opportunity to strike a personal enemy. The Sith will never miss an opportunity to cut off their face to spite their nose.

That's exactly what happens in this story too. The most powerful Sith all get killed off in power plays until Marr (who's as close to a light side Sith as any of the canon characters get) ends up running things by default just because he's the only one who stays out of it.

Kreia I'll give you. She was absolutely a hypocrite. It's kinda arguable if she was a Sith any more than she was a Jedi, though.

[Madner Kami]

Kreia is not a hypocrite for both using and hating the Force. She is very much aware of her dependency and that dependency is the reason for her hatred. She ain't preaching not to use the Force while using the Force herself, she is preaching that the Force is forcing you to use it. Her point is not not using the Force, her point is destroying the Force and she very much attempts to do that.

[Independent George]

Nothing about the Sith Empire makes any sense in how it functions. How sad does the Republic have to be if they can't beat an enemy that literally and actively fights against itself half the time? Empire troops are routinely deployed against other factions within the Empire, officers and Sith are regularly assassinated by their rivals, and the Sith academy has an over 80% attrition rate (where those on the bottom are killed instead of being reassigned to roles in line with their skills). The industrial base is slave-based. How has the Republic not just rolled over them?

[Steve]

Because of writer-induced faults mostly. It's a Star Wars staple that the galactic democracies are always inept bureaucratic regimes hamstrung by corruption and selfish behavior. The Republic can't beat the Sith Empire despite its flaws because the Republic's got too much of its strength wrapped up in domestic demands instead of mobilizing properly for war. Hell, the entire bit for the Treaty of Coruscant plays into that: the Empire's overstretched and on the verge of seeing all their gains rolled back so they trick the Republic into peace talks and then launch one overwhelming strike to seize temporary control of Coruscant, then use the threat of Coruscant's destruction to force the Republic to ratify almost all of their gains in the peace treaty. Coruscant's not the only ecumenopolis in the galaxy, but the political machine of the Republic is more worried about saving its base than pushing their very real advantages to roll the Sith back.

And then of course the corruption aspect plays right into the other bits of the narrative, like Corellia's government elites deciding to switch sides to the Empire in defiance of their population's overwhelming majority for the Republic (hence Corellia's role as the final world for all the original class stories).

[Karha of Honor]

Nothing about the Sith Empire makes any sense in how it functions. How sad does the Republic have to be if they can't beat an enemy that literally and actively fights against itself half the time? Empire troops are routinely deployed against other factions within the Empire, officers and Sith are regularly assassinated by their rivals, and the Sith academy has an over 80% attrition rate (where those on the bottom are killed instead of being reassigned to roles in line with their skills). The industrial base is slave-based. How has the Republic not just rolled over them?

it's like the United Nations going to war...