Jonathan101 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:08 pm
I'll just post this as evidence for why people underestimate Malak and why he was actually more scary and competent than people give him credit.
With regards to Traya, the main problem I see with her is that she was a soapbox for the writer to express his criticisms of the Force and the Jedi and everything else that bothered him about Star Wars, especially since many of his criticisms are based on misconceptions. If you put aside that the writer himself seems to believe she is sort of right, she is otherwise a fantastic villain imo.
And they are ALL still better villains than those in TOR.
The writer thinks she is right because...?
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:35 pm
Her philosophy fits quite well to people who are existentialist/nihilistic like myself, who don't see the point in anything, and just watch the freak show we call a world unfold from an outsider perspective with scorn and sadness.
So now you pretty much ruined every political argument you make anywhere.
There IS no point in anything! We all die in the end. We all have our own sins, whether large or small. And we each have biological functions we can't control. We're tiny ants compared to the universe. That can't and will never change.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:00 pm
As far Traya, she's divisive. I can see why people don't buy her philosophy and, honestly, it's all there in her name, she is a traitor. She tells you that she is. She's hiding behind smoke and mirrors and admits to doing so when talking to you, even encouraging you to do the same. But then again, that is what makes her so appealing, if you ask me. She could be plotting to get back to power or she really could buy what she preaches herself. For all we know, she could either be completely wrong and insane, be just plotting her own return to power or she may have the most poignant point about the nature of the Force that anyone ever pointed out.
I really wish the game gave room to actually push back with something more complex than 'No, I think you are wrong'. I like Philosophy so being able to actually argue with her brand of Negative Responsibility + Consequentialism would have been nice. It's why I generally find her more frustrating than interesting, the nature of the game gives her a soap box because it doesn't let you actually properly argue back against her when there are some pretty good places you could go with deconstructing her arguments.
True, she is about betrayal, but then, you'd be a fool to dismiss everything she says. Even a fool is right sometimes. A culture's teachings and the nature of its people do achieve definition in conflict, whether in war or peacetime. Some people are so protective of their beliefs, they are slaves to them, rather than them ruling their own values. And sometimes, you do need to let people fight their own battles. The question is when that time is. It's kind of like the Prime Directive. And as we all know, taking it to an extreme is bad. But in moderation, it can be good. I always got the sense from her you need to betray your beliefs and people in order to test them, see how strong they are. If they can withstand the test, they're worthy. If not, discard them.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:11 am
There IS no point in anything! We all die in the end. We all have our own sins, whether large or small. And we each have biological functions we can't control. We're tiny ants compared to the universe. That can't and will never change.
Yes. Summer, 2007. I was hit by a car. Just glad it wasn't a semi-truck. If it was... I'd be dead. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:11 am
There IS no point in anything! We all die in the end. We all have our own sins, whether large or small. And we each have biological functions we can't control. We're tiny ants compared to the universe. That can't and will never change.
Well, I hate to refute this but each moment of time is frozen and forever preserved by quantum physics so every moment is eternal and thus even if you're non-theistic, there is an overriding consciousness to the universe--humans. We have provided an eternal (preserved in a block universe) meaning to reality and observation of it.
And ants or not, we are the only known conscious beings in the universe so possibly the most important things in the universe.
To quote Carl Sagen, "We are the universe knowing itself."
Mind you, my above description is why the Force is actually real.
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:11 am
There IS no point in anything! We all die in the end. We all have our own sins, whether large or small. And we each have biological functions we can't control. We're tiny ants compared to the universe. That can't and will never change.
Well, I hate to refute this but each moment of time is frozen and forever preserved by quantum physics so every moment is eternal and thus even if you're non-theistic, there is an overriding consciousness to the universe--humans. We have provided an eternal (preserved in a block universe) meaning to reality and observation of it.
And ants or not, we are the only known conscious beings in the universe so possibly the most important things in the universe.
To quote Carl Sagen, "We are the universe knowing itself."
Mind you, my above description is why the Force is actually real.
Well said. Would+1, if there was such a function here.
"If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?
- xoxSAUERKRAUTxox
And there's thousands, nay millions of criminals who got away with their crimes, and rotten people today who revel in the crimes of the present, and those who enable them, and decent, innocent people who get hurt. I can't stand the suffering. It's like the whole planet is bleeding.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
