Star Trek: Into Darkness

[MightyDavidson]

Unless it's Doctor Who, in which London is the target of every single alien invasion that ever happens ever.

Not true.

Sometimes it's Cardiff.

Or, thanks to season 11, Sheffield.

At the end of Capaldis' first episode they were in Glasgow (though that was filmed in Cardiff).

Also, let's not forget to mention all of those quarries. So many epic battles...

Though that's not just a Dr. Who thing though, several quarries in Power Rangers have seen some pretty fierce battles in their day.

[Jonathan101]

I should hang around quarries more. They are obviously where the action is.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The Tom and Jerry Kids is where the action is.

[bronnt]

You know, there was another point in this movie that struck me, which I had forgotten and just now remembered.

So Starfleet decides to demote Kirk just because he's incompetent and lacking any temperament to be a captain. So far, so good. Then Marcus repromotes him, but Marcus only does so because he's got ulterior motives and is convinced Kirk is so rash he'll fuck things up completely and start a war with the Klingons. And Kirk actually does almost exactly what Marcus hopes, by being immediately detected by multiple Klingons. Fortunately, none of them sent a message saying they'd found intruders in a Starfleet shuttle, and also fortunately, Kirk and company murdered absolutely every single one of them, which would be an act of war if anyone learned about it.

Now at the end, it's revealed that Marcus was basically a traitor and putting Kirk in the captain's chair was just all part of his elaborate (if bonkers) plot. How is Kirk still a captain at the end of this film?

Did nobody care that Kirk is still a screw-up and continued to prove he was a screw-up in everything he did? Spock and Scotty were the two who saved the day, aside from Kirk's suicide mission to realign the reactor-which shows he's heroic but says nothing about whether he's captain material.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

You know, there was another point in this movie that struck me, which I had forgotten and just now remembered.

So Starfleet decides to demote Kirk just because he's incompetent and lacking any temperament to be a captain. So far, so good. Then Marcus repromotes him, but Marcus only does so because he's got ulterior motives and is convinced Kirk is so rash he'll fuck things up completely and start a war with the Klingons. And Kirk actually does almost exactly what Marcus hopes, by being immediately detected by multiple Klingons. Fortunately, none of them sent a message saying they'd found intruders in a Starfleet shuttle, and also fortunately, Kirk and company murdered absolutely every single one of them, which would be an act of war if anyone learned about it.

Now at the end, it's revealed that Marcus was basically a traitor and putting Kirk in the captain's chair was just all part of his elaborate (if bonkers) plot. How is Kirk still a captain at the end of this film?

Did nobody care that Kirk is still a screw-up and continued to prove he was a screw-up in everything he did? Spock and Scotty were the two who saved the day, aside from Kirk's suicide mission to realign the reactor-which shows he's heroic but says nothing about whether he's captain material.

Only thing that comes to mind for me is that Marcus's operation could have been regarded as on the up and up, just that he himself was a corruptive agent on the matter, therefor Kirk's reacquisition of both the enterprise and rank as captain weren't annulled. Also the fact that he went to such dire lengths to save the ship seems like something that Star Trek lore would have Starfleet find redeeming in him. They made Janeway an admiral, like, immediately after she returned.

[Jonathan101]

If they've just been attacked by a terrorist (thrice), discovered that one of their admirals (and possibly several of his subordinates, perhaps including other Starfleet Captains), and if they fear the Klingons are on the verge of attacking them, then they might think that they need all the Captains they can get.

They obviously felt that despite his obvious flaws, he was acceptable as a Captain before and he's acceptable again. Ultimately he's as much a victim / pawn of Marcus as anyone else and he did, in fact, fail to go through with what Marcus ordered him to because he listened to his crew for once, so he's not quite as much of a screw-up as Marcus himself thought.

[bronnt]

Only thing that comes to mind for me is that Marcus's operation could have been regarded as on the up and up, just that he himself was a corruptive agent on the matter, therefor Kirk's reacquisition of both the enterprise and rank as captain weren't annulled. Also the fact that he went to such dire lengths to save the ship seems like something that Star Trek lore would have Starfleet find redeeming in him. They made Janeway an admiral, like, immediately after she returned.

Maybe so, and maybe they cut him some slack since he defied orders and tried to apprehend Khan instead of murdering him from orbit, like Marcus wanted. Standing up against the wrong in order to seek justice is a good thing.

They're oddly silent about the 30ish Klingons that got murdered though, aren't they? I mean, the Klingons probably would have murdered them for invading their homeworld, so it's not like the Klingons are paragons of justice, but they were still only defending their planet and got gunned down for their trouble.

Plus, it was Spock who once again did the heavy lifting-talked Kirk out of the execution, foiled Khan's plan, and even capped it off by apprehending Khan at the end. Why isn't he getting the accolades and his much-deserved captain's chair? A great way to switch up the dynamic (which is actually what I thought would happen after his demotion the start of the film) would be to make Kirk the eager first officer underneath Spock's captaincy, and put something fresh into the rebooted universe.

They obviously felt that despite his obvious flaws, he was acceptable as a Captain before and he's acceptable again. Ultimately he's as much a victim / pawn of Marcus as anyone else and he did, in fact, fail to go through with what Marcus ordered him to because he listened to his crew for once, so he's not quite as much of a screw-up as Marcus himself thought.

Well he still seemed to fail to learn the lesson about actions and consequences and blatantly telling Starfleet to shove it by falsifying records. That was the big issue at the start of the film. That's why Pike himself dressed him down. He's still getting off scot-free for that, solely because a corrupt admiral wanted to use him as a pawn?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Plus, it was Spock who once again did the heavy lifting-talked Kirk out of the execution, foiled Khan's plan, and even capped it off by apprehending Khan at the end. Why isn't he getting the accolades and his much-deserved captain's chair? A great way to switch up the dynamic (which is actually what I thought would happen after his demotion the start of the film) would be to make Kirk the eager first officer underneath Spock's captaincy, and put something fresh into the rebooted universe.

In a weird way that sounds so fanfic'y that it's beyond fanfic (in a good and interesting way).

The thing about commanding the Enterprise is that you don't leave it to captain something else. That was Riker's dilemma, and Spock himself has been known to be very humble with regards to captaining a ship. In the mirror universe for instance he laid that all out rather explicitly. In the '09 Trek it was pretty clear that he didn't see himself as compatible with the chair. Plus as far as accolades, it's probably like being the producer and getting the best picture award, 'cause f all the other people that worked on the movie.

[Jonathan101]

No. He's getting off for it because they need the manpower and because he acted heroically in the end by sacrificing his life to save his ship, as well as playing a part in exposing the plans of said corrupt Admiral and at least attempting to bring him to justice.

[CrypticMirror]

Into Darkness lost me when they started with something that Futurama had already parodied, the underwater spaceship.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4RLOo6bchU

When you start off the movie with something that even Futurama flags up as being dumb, then -unless it is an intentional comedy- there is no coming back from that. Then the movie pressed onwards into Zapp Brannigan territory. If they'd called this a Futurama movie and replaced Spock with Kif, then it might have had a chnce.