Star Trek: Into Darkness

[Yukaphile]

A whole two months!

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Almost Cheerilee bump status.

[Yukaphile]

I just bumped a thread that was two years old. That's NOTHING. LOL.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The writers brought up the Joker as an example of a singular villain that is most well known and thought Khan was basically the TOS analog, not that he was similar in his motivations or anything. Kind of like how Blofeld is the most recognized Bond villain, or Lex Luthor the most recognized villain for Superman.

I have a hard time seeing Khan as some distinctive villain. I can see how maybe the episode was emblematic of Star Trek episodic convention that would transgress into a strong premise of a movie. Really though there was a slew of episodes with some complicated and charismatic figures that disrupted Enterprise's standard operations.

[Mecha82]

I would dare to say that it was WoK that made Khan memorable villain that he is. So without WoK Khan would had been just another throw away TOS villain whom people would had forgot.

[Deledrius]

I would dare to say that it was WoK that made Khan memorable villain that he is. So without WoK Khan would had been just another throw away TOS villain whom people would had forgot.

I agree. And yet it still uses that backstory for the pathos it's built upon. Into Darkness could have possibly managed to manufacture it, but it didn't, so it lacked that central portion of the villain.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I would dare to say that it was WoK that made Khan memorable villain that he is. So without WoK Khan would had been just another throw away TOS villain whom people would had forgot.

I agree. And yet it still uses that backstory for the pathos it's built upon. Into Darkness could have possible managed to manufacture it, but it didn't, so it lacked that central portion of the villain.

Except though that it is au contraire to the end of the episode. The episode ends on a happy fairytale note, giving Khan a wife to ride off into the sunset with after nearly hijacking the ship via mutiny.

Then they brought it back for the movie, like, "look how cold and callous the episodic conventions are, just throwing Khan out to the pasture, never to check back up on him or anything."

[Yukaphile]

... seriously? Joker is a raging anarchist who wants to spread a campaign of organized chaos. That's hardly how I see Khan at all, as more like a classical type villain who might be full of himself and dreams of conquest and has high ambition, but he's intelligent and sophisticated.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

... seriously? Joker is a raging anarchist who wants to spread a campaign of organized chaos. That's hardly how I see Khan at all, as more like a classical type villain who might be full of himself and dreams of conquest and has high ambition, but he's intelligent and sophisticated.

We don't get much to go on about Khan's political leaning.

In the episode, he is more of a revolutionary, while in the movie, he is more of a fallen angel.

[Enterprising]

I would dare to say that it was WoK that made Khan memorable villain that he is. So without WoK Khan would had been just another throw away TOS villain whom people would had forgot.

I agree. And yet it still uses that backstory for the pathos it's built upon. Into Darkness could have possible managed to manufacture it, but it didn't, so it lacked that central portion of the villain.

Not really helped by having pretty much everything changed about the character, apart from the name. Montalban gave the character pull, power, mystery, and Cumberbatch.....didn't. TOS Khan lived up to what he was pitched as, a brilliant, though deludedly ambitious "superman". Who required a two-pronged intellectual attack from Kirk & Spock just to claw out of him his real identity. You didn't need to see him beat the crap out of 30 Kilingons to know this guy meant business.

Fine though an actor Cumberbatch is, that wasn't the sort of role suited for him. Think they cast him just because they could, and he was a "name" for box office. Not actually for being the best actor for that part. They were as well making him Gary Mitchell, and going with a variation of how all that played out.