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iirc. psychic powers never naturally occurred, rather the vorlons did some genetic manipulation of primitive species

ORCACommander wrote:iirc. psychic powers never naturally occurred, rather the vorlons did some genetic manipulation of primitive species

I'm not sure if it was ever stated that they couldn't occur naturally, just that the Vorlons sped up the processes in some species and probably gave it to some species that weren't going to develop that way. Psychics seem like their ace in the hole for this war otherwise the Mimbari would have probably remembered that Psychics were great versus Shadow Ships. If true then there is a chance the Vorlon actually learned about the vulnerability from the Narn when they used their telepaths to help drive the Shadows off their world in the last war (and then the Shadows killed all their telepaths in retaliation).

FaxModem1 wrote:

Mickey_Rat15 wrote:So, how was Deathwalker making her serum during her time with the Wind Swords? Were they providing her with "ingredients"?

If it can be any type of sentient person, this might explain what happened to some human POWs during the Earth-Minbari war.

Wasn't the war specifically a war of extermination? By it's very definition, there'd be no POWs...

Madner Kami wrote:

FaxModem1 wrote:

Mickey_Rat15 wrote:So, how was Deathwalker making her serum during her time with the Wind Swords? Were they providing her with "ingredients"?

If it can be any type of sentient person, this might explain what happened to some human POWs during the Earth-Minbari war.

Wasn't the war specifically a war of extermination? By it's very definition, there'd be no POWs...

True, the Minbari probably killed all their prisoners. I'm just stipulating that it's possible that they turned over human wounded that they hadn't shot yet over to the Deathwalker.

FaxModem1 wrote:

Madner Kami wrote:

FaxModem1 wrote:

Mickey_Rat15 wrote:So, how was Deathwalker making her serum during her time with the Wind Swords? Were they providing her with "ingredients"?

If it can be any type of sentient person, this might explain what happened to some human POWs during the Earth-Minbari war.

Wasn't the war specifically a war of extermination? By it's very definition, there'd be no POWs...

True, the Minbari probably killed all their prisoners. I'm just stipulating that it's possible that they turned over human wounded that they hadn't shot yet over to the Deathwalker.

Yes, I know and that is precisely what I was trying to imply as well. Even if some humans got captured, be it for them surrendering, the Minbari running out of batteries for their rifles or some Minbari soldiers having scruples of just killing unarmed civilians, maybe a group of children for example, they wouldn't be interned by the Minbari state. How they'd die would make little difference to them, especially given how utterly incompassionate the Minbari appear to be at times and in particular during that war and I have no doubt, that "non-existing prisoners" were handed over to Deathwalker with the understanding or expectation, that they'd be killed by her in whatever way.

Yes, the Mimbari didn't take prisoners and planned to exterminate all humans.

It's why the "Starkiller" incident of Sheridan wasn't a war crime since while they faked a distress signal, it was solely to lure in the Mimbari there to murder them anyway.

CareerKnight wrote:

ORCACommander wrote:iirc. psychic powers never naturally occurred, rather the vorlons did some genetic manipulation of primitive species

I'm not sure if it was ever stated that they couldn't occur naturally, just that the Vorlons sped up the processes in some species and probably gave it to some species that weren't going to develop that way. Psychics seem like their ace in the hole for this war otherwise the Mimbari would have probably remembered that Psychics were great versus Shadow Ships. If true then there is a chance the Vorlon actually learned about the vulnerability from the Narn when they used their telepaths to help drive the Shadows off their world in the last war (and then the Shadows killed all their telepaths in retaliation).

There are naturally occurring telepaths, but the Vorlons pick up the slack on any planet lacking in them. The Centauri, for instance, have species wide potential, even if it is extremely limited (the prophetic dreams), or half-telepaths like the seers. They were also never touched by the Vorlons, and have no angelic iconography, and their telepaths have certain ancient ceremonial functions, so all the evidence implies their telepaths are naturally occurring.

Humans are 100% manipulated into it, only rising in the past century. As I recall the whole thing was supposed to be, the little chip Kosh gets at the end is the record of Talia's mind scanning his braincase thingy, which would be used to deprogram and weaponize Talla later down the arc (instead of Lita), which we might even be able to interpret that Kosh was the one possibly in charge, or at least involved, in the making of human telepaths, he does seem to be the point man dealing with humans (keeping an eye on their station, preventing their extermination, extended material he had some wibbly-wobbly with Bester's grandad). Of course then Talia left the show, so.

A part of me thought the whole thing with Talia's mind being recorded by Kosh was for later where they could bring her back but I think they forgot about that subplot

excalibur wrote:A part of me thought the whole thing with Talia's mind being recorded by Kosh was for later where they could bring her back but I think they forgot about that subplot

That was always my understanding; she got mind-wiped, Kosh had a mind-backup of her, she eventually would have been restored by Kosh, and that's how she would become his acolyte. My understanding is that the actress started being a prima donna, JMS got sick of her, and Patricia Tallman suddenly became available again, so JMS decided to just leave Talia that way and bring Lyta back (which explains why we never had Talia show up as a villain like you'd expect with this type of this kind of plot development).

Imagine what a motivation that would have been for what eventually became the pissed-off-Lyta arc. Our heroes did this to Talia on purpose, and with out any plan whatsoever to save her (since it would have been Kosh doing it without their knowledge). I'd be fed up too.

Durandal_1707 wrote:That was always my understanding; she got mind-wiped, Kosh had a mind-backup of her, she eventually would have been restored by Kosh, and that's how she would become his acolyte. My understanding is that the actress started being a prima donna, JMS got sick of her, and Patricia Tallman suddenly became available again, so JMS decided to just leave Talia that way and bring Lyta back (which explains why we never had Talia show up as a villain like you'd expect with this type of this kind of plot development).

Imagine what a motivation that would have been for what eventually became the pissed-off-Lyta arc. Our heroes did this to Talia on purpose, and with out any plan whatsoever to save her (since it would have been Kosh doing it without their knowledge). I'd be fed up too.

Pretty sure that episode was created to write her out of the show and bring Lyta back in, not as something that was planned before and re-adapted. The main thing Kosh was recording was her fear response suggesting that the original idea was it was for insurance in case Talia's enhanced powers got out of hand or she acted against the Vorlons (how she got her powers enhanced creates a bit of a problem for the change since Ironheart should have noticed the dormant personality).