TNG - Marina Sirtis talks about the costume design

[drewder]

I don't know, you guys - I watched the show and I could take her seriously, whatever she wore. I mean, I get, what you're saying, it's just nothing I could wholeheartedly agree on. I even don't agree with Miss Sirtis on this one, because no matter how much you want to make fun of Troi, because her job is nothing more than saying "Captain, he is hiding something", what you have to understand, is that you can't use characters potential like Deannas to the fullest, because then you would have the other crowd being up in arms, yelling that she is waaaaaaaay tooooooooo powerful and that would be a bad thing.

Not for me, mind you - I would've liked to see Deanna and Data in full "let's user our potential to the fullest"-mode. I mean - take Rey from Star Wars for example. I have nothing against her, I think, her character is awesome, but I read that lot of people are yelling, that she's a Mary Sue and that all this new Star Wars is some SJW-stuff. Which - of course - is bullshit. But that would've happened, if they made Deanna and Data into characters that lived up to their potential.

Most people don't have a problem with her being intelligent and having boobs but remeber we're not talking about people here. We're talking about Hollywood producers. Hollywood is the most superficial industry in the world.

[Yukaphile]

I coincidentally saw this the other day too. It is a good and kind of sad insight into the production.

I feel like Troi is a real missed opportunity. Maybe she was too nice? Maybe they needed more women writers on staff? Had to be the guy who points to sexism and sighs, but when you look at the cloths and recall all of Gene's bullshit...

I wish there had been more female writers on the DS9 writing staff. Seriously, making Sisko a rape baby? I don't know how he could ever trust the Prophets again after learning how they so callously used this woman against her will, and then just discarded her like used trash.

[Karha of Honor]

I don't know, you guys - I watched the show and I could take her seriously, whatever she wore. I mean, I get, what you're saying, it's just nothing I could wholeheartedly agree on. I even don't agree with Miss Sirtis on this one, because no matter how much you want to make fun of Troi, because her job is nothing more than saying "Captain, he is hiding something", what you have to understand, is that you can't use characters potential like Deannas to the fullest, because then you would have the other crowd being up in arms, yelling that she is waaaaaaaay tooooooooo powerful and that would be a bad thing.

Not for me, mind you - I would've liked to see Deanna and Data in full "let's user our potential to the fullest"-mode. I mean - take Rey from Star Wars for example. I have nothing against her, I think, her character is awesome, but I read that lot of people are yelling, that she's a Mary Sue and that all this new Star Wars is some SJW-stuff. Which - of course - is bullshit. But that would've happened, if they made Deanna and Data into characters that lived up to their potential.

Most people don't have a problem with her being intelligent and having boobs but remeber we're not talking about people here. We're talking about Hollywood producers. Hollywood is the most superficial industry in the world.

I wish it believed that. They could stop fucking preaching.

[J!!]

I wish there had been more female writers on the DS9 writing staff. Seriously, making Sisko a rape baby? I don't know how he could ever trust the Prophets again after learning how they so callously used this woman against her will, and then just discarded her like used trash.

Sounds like religion to me.

[clearspira]

I don't know, you guys - I watched the show and I could take her seriously, whatever she wore. I mean, I get, what you're saying, it's just nothing I could wholeheartedly agree on. I even don't agree with Miss Sirtis on this one, because no matter how much you want to make fun of Troi, because her job is nothing more than saying "Captain, he is hiding something", what you have to understand, is that you can't use characters potential like Deannas to the fullest, because then you would have the other crowd being up in arms, yelling that she is waaaaaaaay tooooooooo powerful and that would be a bad thing.

Not for me, mind you - I would've liked to see Deanna and Data in full "let's user our potential to the fullest"-mode. I mean - take Rey from Star Wars for example. I have nothing against her, I think, her character is awesome, but I read that lot of people are yelling, that she's a Mary Sue and that all this new Star Wars is some SJW-stuff. Which - of course - is bullshit. But that would've happened, if they made Deanna and Data into characters that lived up to their potential.

Rey is objectively a Mary Sue. Luke Skywalker's abilities with the Force were piecemeal at best before he was trained by Yoda. Correct me if i'm wrong, but he used it to guide a rocket down an air duct and telekinetically move his lightsaber a few inches on Hoth. That's it. Rey on the other hand mastered the frickin' Jedi mind trick without any instruction at all, and not long after, actually managed to scare Luke with her Force powers on the Jedi temple planet.
And shall we even get into just how ridiculously outmatched Luke was against Darth Vader and the Emperor until Episode 6 and even then he had to invoke Vader's conflicted feelings to save his life, whereas Rey, with again minimal training because Luke refused to train her, managed to defeat Kylo Ren in battle TWICE.

[pilight]

Beating Kylo Ren isn't such a big deal. Hell, Finn held his own against him and he had just gotten his ass kicked by a random Storm Trooper a few scenes earlier.

There's also considerable doubt about how much "training" is truly required to use the force. Both the Jedi and the Sith use training as indoctrination, teaching kids about their ideals more than actual instruction on how to use the force.

[Asvarduil]

Beating Kylo Ren isn't such a big deal. Hell, Finn held his own against him and he had just gotten his ass kicked by a random Storm Trooper a few scenes earlier.

There's also considerable doubt about how much "training" is truly required to use the force. Both the Jedi and the Sith use training as indoctrination, teaching kids about their ideals more than actual instruction on how to use the force.

About 'how' to use the Force and training being indoctrination - I think that you're 100% right. Part of the reason that there's no basic Force curriculum in Jedi/Sith Academies, is because of the nature of a person's relationship with the Force itself - as Obi-Wan himself said, "The Force guides our actions, but it also obeys our commands."

On the one hand, there's a huge difference between, "Jedi mind trick in order to end a drunken brawl", and "Jedi mind trick in order to make someone commit suicide." The former is fairly innocuous, requires little power, and I think that an overwhelming number of Jedi or Sith could pull that off - the subjects are already in a somewhat malleable state, and thus the amount of force a person must exert upon the Force to influence the drunken brawlers isn't too great at all. The latter, is much more sinister, and requires enough power to override someone's will to live, which is a significant source of resistance for the person in question. Not only does this require tapping the Dark Side - an unnatural aspect of the Force - the person themselves must be powerful enough to direct a significant amount of power into their Force persuasion.

An even better example that shows the other side of this, in my opinion, is Anakin Skywalker himself. He's a Jedi Guardian according to material I've read, and he originally wanted to be a Jedi Healer, but found that he couldn't use Force healing techniques...but was pretty darn good with a lightsaber. The Force itself doesn't give free reign to its users on what abilities they will have - different people, will find an affinity for different techniques. In Anakin's case, his precognition and ability to sense possible futures is very strong (to the point it will be used against him), and he has a gift for using the Force to enhance his martial arts, and to a certain extent, to manipulate emotions in others. He's shown in Episode 2 being able to calm vicious predators using his gifts, and after he becomes Darth Vader, he is known for radiating an aura of terror, the better with which to destroy enemies and cow inferiors.

Conclusion - you can't teach a person how to use the Force, as the Force is partially intrinsic to them, as are their limitations with it. You can teach people techniques to better use the Force, and to be able to exert more force upon it.

[PerrySimm]

... Both the Jedi and the Sith use training as indoctrination, teaching kids about their ideals more than actual instruction on how to use the force.

About 'how' to use the Force and training being indoctrination - I think that you're 100% right. Part of the reason that there's no basic Force curriculum in Jedi/Sith Academies, is because of the nature of a person's relationship with the Force itself - as Obi-Wan himself said, "The Force guides our actions, but it also obeys our commands." ...

Marina Sirtis ought to know all about indoctrination...

[Admiral X]

It's funny in a way that she played yet another character with a huge amount of cleavage.

[clearspira]

... Both the Jedi and the Sith use training as indoctrination, teaching kids about their ideals more than actual instruction on how to use the force.

About 'how' to use the Force and training being indoctrination - I think that you're 100% right. Part of the reason that there's no basic Force curriculum in Jedi/Sith Academies, is because of the nature of a person's relationship with the Force itself - as Obi-Wan himself said, "The Force guides our actions, but it also obeys our commands." ...

Marina Sirtis ought to know all about indoctrination...

I've never played this game so I ask: are all the women this stereotypical? i'll never get over how in games men get practical armour and smart uniforms, and women get the most objectifying and impractical clothes imaginable.