Sfdebris.net

I dunno, it seems perfectly reasonable that there's a distinction between telepathic receivers (people who can pick up on others thoughts) and telepathic transmitters (people who can transmit thoughts into other people's minds (people who aren't telepathic receivers, that is)).

The former have a passive ability that doesn't actually intrude into anyone's mind; they're just picking up the telepathic signals that people are giving off, the same way someone with an enhanced sense of smell can tell what you had for breakfast. And, at least for Betazoids, being able to receive telepathic signals this way doesn't equate to any sort of ability to influence someone else's brain.

And from what we have seen of telepathy that can influence other's minds, it seems likely that any attempt to relieve O'Brien's trauma that way might cause the telepath to become infected with that trauma themselves.

Formless One wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:13 pm And moreover, unlike a real prison where the experiences are influenced by your own decisions while in prison, here everything was determined by the people simulating the prison-- even his choice to murder a man.

This makes me question the alien society.
They are obviously big on the punitive aspect of a prison, make the people suffer, but they also want to do it quickly so that the people can return to society.

So why is there not a follow up simulation not entirely about the criminals being given huge amounts of therapy, drug rehab, and job skills training?

Okay, you want to punish them so they never do the thing again... Fine. Cruel... But fine... Prime Directive.

But perhaps don't leave them in a PTSD state of mind? Maybe have a second round of simulation that releases the person into a halfway house, and then another round with them out in the "real world" a matrix style normal community that sees whether the person has any more violent outbursts or if they have been fashioned into a productive citizen. You don't get let out of the simulation until you behave properly for a protracted period of time under "normal conditions".

Kind of a Ministries of Love, Clockwork Orange, Matrix hybrid.

Questioning alien societies is ubiquitous throughout Trek and is a principal practice of the show as a reflection of historical humanity.

It did seem really cruel from them to have O'Brian go trough all that over basically nothing but accusation. I mean it really damaged his mind gifving him PTSD.

Mecha82 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:19 pm It did seem really cruel from them to have O'Brian go trough all that over basically nothing but accusation. I mean it really damaged his mind gifving him PTSD.

It could have. It's never discussed if he had any adverse psychological effects.

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:42 pm

Mecha82 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:19 pm It did seem really cruel from them to have O'Brian go trough all that over basically nothing but accusation. I mean it really damaged his mind gifving him PTSD.

It could have. It's never discussed if he had any adverse psychological effects.

Maybe, despite the onscreen incompetence of Troi and the inexperience of Ezri, the off screen psychological treatments available in the future are good enough that PTSD is no longer the lifelong struggle it is today. And that is the real positive. Lingering on the trauma is the dystopia, seeing that it no longer effects people is the beacon of hope that Trek represents. I want to live in that future, and some days I need that hope.

If it helps you at all, O'Brien only has small bit parts in the next few episodes, so he could easily have got off screen help. And lets hope that one day a few weeks treatment is all that is needed to deal with that sort of thing.

Fianna wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:10 pm This is really the sort of story that would be better served on an anthology series, not one where you have to see the character again, week after week.

There was an episode of the '90s revival of The Outer Limits with the same premise. David Hyde Pierce (Niles from Frasier) played the lead role.

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:38 pm

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:42 pm

Mecha82 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:19 pm It did seem really cruel from them to have O'Brian go trough all that over basically nothing but accusation. I mean it really damaged his mind gifving him PTSD.

It could have. It's never discussed if he had any adverse psychological effects.

Maybe, despite the onscreen incompetence of Troi and the inexperience of Ezri, the off screen psychological treatments available in the future are good enough that PTSD is no longer the lifelong struggle it is today. And that is the real positive. Lingering on the trauma is the dystopia, seeing that it no longer effects people is the beacon of hope that Trek represents. I want to live in that future, and some days I need that hope.

If it helps you at all, O'Brien only has small bit parts in the next few episodes, so he could easily have got off screen help. And lets hope that one day a few weeks treatment is all that is needed to deal with that sort of thing.

Yes. Let's not assume that we know how dream prison sentences work. Like transporters they might filter out all the bad side effects.

And true, they probably could have just arranged the episodes in post production to not make him so light footed for at least a few episodes.

I don't understand how a person could recover at all from a prison sentence like that, real or VR, whether you murder your cellmate or not (voluntarily or forced by your captors).

The longest-held POW in the Vietnam War was held for 9 years and that permanently ruined his life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_James_Thompson

O'Brien was held for 20. He should have ended up an alcoholic with a failed marriage. He's right when he tells Bashir that the O'Brien who was his friend died in that cell. Warp technology is more plausible than O'Brien returning to normal from counseling, unless they can erase his memories that the events ever happened.

JL_Stinger wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:32 pm I don't understand how a person could recover at all from a prison sentence like that, real or VR, whether you murder your cellmate or not (voluntarily or forced by your captors).

The longest-held POW in the Vietnam War was held for 9 years and that permanently ruined his life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_James_Thompson

O'Brien was held for 20. He should have ended up an alcoholic with a failed marriage. He's right when he tells Bashir that the O'Brien who was his friend died in that cell. Warp technology is more plausible than O'Brien returning to normal from counseling, unless they can erase his memories that the events ever happened.

Well they do have memory erasing tech. I can't remember if it was mentioned in the episode though.

But those real world effects is why we need the hope of a future where they can counteract them. Star Trek needs to be better than reality, to give us hope that one day we can reach that and make it easier to carry the burden of unpleasant experiences in the present.