DIS Will you take my hand

[Link8909]

Has Section 31 even shown up outside of Deep Space Nine? I know the Discovery was meant to be a top secret research ship but I don't remember Section 31 being mentioned in connection with it.

Section 31's version of Skynet is the focus of DISCO Season 2.

DISCO's version is controversial because it's explicitly not a rogue agency but the Federation's intelligence branch.

While not something I would have done with Section 31, I don't mind this and is even very interesting, I posted why in the "Saints of Imperfection" thread so I'll just repost it here:

I like it when a line of dialog can say and imply so much while saying so little, because there a line that Admiral Cornwell says to Captain Pike when talking about Section 31

“Nation building is never pretty”

It is pretty much saying that Section 31 played a critical role in the creation of the Federation, but also paints an interesting picture (for me at least) of how it was done and how this could have affected Captain Archer in Star Trek Enterprise.

One thing about the Romulan War in the Enterprise era that interests me is that nobody knew what a Romulan looked like, Star Trek Picard has given use a really good explanation on how ground troops could have worked in the war, with full armour suits and equipped with those acid tablets that disintegrates a body completely, and Star Trek Online (though Beta material) has expanded on the Black Hole Warp Drives that the Romulans use, that when a Romulan ship is damaged or destroyed the containment field around the black hole can fail (or deliberately turned off) and the ship is sucked into its own singularity.

This does ultimately rase an interesting thought, Starfleet of the Enterprise era had no idea what a Romulan even looked like, that is a big lack of intelligence, and if they even didn’t know that good knows what else the Romulans could be hiding, so an organization like Section 31 would have been instrumental in fighting the Romulans.

I can easily see (especially after Season 3) Captain Archer asking Reed and his contact Harris to perform more information gathering before and in the early years of the Romulan War, but as time continues and more lives are lost in the conflict, I can see Archer having to make hard choices like he did in Season 3, giving Harris more power and more autonomy to do what is needed for the sake of Humanity, this could also extend not just to the war but to anything that would hinder the future of the alliance that will become the Federation.

[CrypticMirror]

I remember the fan outrage agains Beast Wars, with the slogan "Truck, Not Monkey!"

That is bullshit, and I think you should retract that statement. Every real Transformers fan knows is was "Trukk not Munky".

[GreyICE]

While not something I would have done with Section 31, I don't mind this and is even very interesting, I posted why in the "Saints of Imperfection" thread so I'll just repost it here:

I like it when a line of dialog can say and imply so much while saying so little, because there a line that Admiral Cornwell says to Captain Pike when talking about Section 31

“Nation building is never pretty”

It is pretty much saying that Section 31 played a critical role in the creation of the Federation, but also paints an interesting picture (for me at least) of how it was done and how this could have affected Captain Archer in Star Trek Enterprise...

It does kind of make sense. There's a bunch of scuzzy shit in our history we like to think is dead and buried, even if it's really not. Hell, the other thread someone was saying "black people might still be scared that the FBI are targeting black leaders like they did in the 60s" like it's not ongoing today. So it makes sense that they could just fade into the background after being semi-official - people want it to fade into the background, so they pretend it stopped, even if there's no evidence it stopped and evidence that it's still ongoing.

That definitely wasn't the problem I had with Season 2, not at all. Season's 2 problem more had to do with Deus Ex Machina as the only method of advancing the plot, everyone holding the idiot ball at amazing times, a tired rehash of a plot that was old when TOS was still airing, and a climactic episode that was mindless special effects porn and by halfway through I knew everything that was going to happen and I couldn't possibly care less.

That season finale pushed me very, very close to just declaring "I don't care what happens to these people."

[Link8909]

It does kind of make sense. There's a bunch of scuzzy shit in our history we like to think is dead and buried, even if it's really not. Hell, the other thread someone was saying "black people might still be scared that the FBI are targeting black leaders like they did in the 60s" like it's not ongoing today. So it makes sense that they could just fade into the background after being semi-official - people want it to fade into the background, so they pretend it stopped, even if there's no evidence it stopped and evidence that it's still ongoing.

That definitely wasn't the problem I had with Season 2, not at all. Season's 2 problem more had to do with Deus Ex Machina as the only method of advancing the plot, everyone holding the idiot ball at amazing times, a tired rehash of a plot that was old when TOS was still airing, and a climactic episode that was mindless special effects porn and by halfway through I knew everything that was going to happen and I couldn't possibly care less.

That season finale pushed me very, very close to just declaring "I don't care what happens to these people."

Can't argue with that, while I wouldn't go as far as say anyone was holding the idiot ball, the main storyline wasn't that interesting for me because as you say it was moved along with Deus Ex Machina's and that the story of A.I. gaining sentience and wanting destruction of all life has been done and was only here to give Season 2 of Star Trek Discovery a big bad.

Personally I think Star Trek Picard does this far better as it wasn't about defeating the synthetics from another galaxy, but showing that artificial life has just as much right to exist, that there are people that will fight for that right, and that they have a choice, and to not become the very people who would destroy them and take away that right and choice.

With Discovery I found the rest of the plots more interesting, like Ensign Tilly's encounter with May and the adventure in the Mycelium Network, Doctor Culber's resurrection and dealing with that, which for Star Trek I'm super happy that they actually explored someone coming back from the dead and all the phycological issues from such an experience, Commander Saru and exploring his culture, continuing Ash Tyler's story of trying to find purpose, and yes, Commander Burnham trying to reconnect with Spock.

And I like all the added lore like with Section 31, the creation of the Klingon D-7, the Klingon Temple of Boreth, and the return of Captain Pike, Number One and the USS Enterprise, which I love the Discovery design of both the exterior and interior, and of course I really enjoyed all the characters, and the acting was fantastic.