New Vegas

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FaxModem1
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Re: New Vegas

Post by FaxModem1 »

We have to remember that the Legion is the same force that looks down upon the very practical Autodocs(aside from the one reserved for Caesar, the hypocrite) and other healing techniques aside from their own Healing Powder, as it's part of the Old World that they want to cast aside. Radios might be considered too old world, the same way that functioning railroads, motor vehicles instead of Brahmin and slaves for carrying cargo, and other such things.

BUT, we do know of at least one use by the Legion for the technology of radios. That's their spy in Camp McCarran sending regular messages about what he's discovered, and receiving orders on what to sabotage.

The Legion seems to be okay with breaking their anti-tech rules when it suits them and gives them an immediate advantage, but in very limited instances. This is why, for instance, Caesar wants the Courier to destroy House's Securitrons below him instead of having his troops do so. He even states that it's because he'd have to kill them for seeing such technology. Ideology trumps practicality in a lot of ways.
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Re: New Vegas

Post by TGLS »

I wonder if the rival factions were deliberately setup so regardless of who wins in any player's game, it could plausibly result with the NCR in control 10 or so years later.
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Re: New Vegas

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FaxModem1 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:53 am The Legion seems to be okay with breaking their anti-tech rules when it suits them and gives them an immediate advantage, but in very limited instances. This is why, for instance, Caesar wants the Courier to destroy House's Securitrons below him instead of having his troops do so. He even states that it's because he'd have to kill them for seeing such technology. Ideology trumps practicality in a lot of ways.
The use of technology in a military setting is simply an arms race - you're stuck with it no matter what your ideology is. It's not as if ultimately it even makes any difference, it's all just relative, but you've got to keep up or be defeated.

The problems with that should be especially clear in the Fallout world.
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Re: New Vegas

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Riedquat wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:33 am
FaxModem1 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:53 am The Legion seems to be okay with breaking their anti-tech rules when it suits them and gives them an immediate advantage, but in very limited instances. This is why, for instance, Caesar wants the Courier to destroy House's Securitrons below him instead of having his troops do so. He even states that it's because he'd have to kill them for seeing such technology. Ideology trumps practicality in a lot of ways.
The use of technology in a military setting is simply an arms race - you're stuck with it no matter what your ideology is. It's not as if ultimately it even makes any difference, it's all just relative, but you've got to keep up or be defeated.

The problems with that should be especially clear in the Fallout world.
Yes, I know that. You know that. Caesar seems to knows that. But he wants his antithesis to the NCR, so technology has to be destroyed and/or chucked away because it goes against his philosophy of a pure grown civilization made from the ground up, not something made from the remains of the old world. Keep in mind that the NCR is the first real opponent Caesar's Legion has faced, due to them usually just smashing and assimilating tribes that they encounter.
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Re: New Vegas

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The Fallout-world is still a very fragile one. Smashing down one technologically superior foe can legitimately put an end to the technology being used by that foe. Vast swathes of the technology is still only cobbled together out of surviving pre-war tech for the most part, lacking any industrial basis to produce it on any larger scale beyond hand-crafting everything.

I'd rather much point out the irony in Ceasar trying to establish a new society which rejects the percieved errors of the previous, by establishing a vague roman-based society. You know, the Republic that crumbled to dust between slave revolts and the aristocracy conglomerating economical power in the hands of a select few, only to be finally toppled by, ultimately, two sets of three men fighting for the ultimate power (bonus points for those who are aware of who Sulla and Marius were and how these two built the foundations for Caesar's ultimate rise to power).
Or is he more into the Principate, you know, the iteration of Rome that fell apart because the power was concentrated in the hands of one person that repeatedly happened to be entirely unsuited to do the job, plus barbarian migration, invasion and increasing civil unrest (bonus points for Elagabalus trying to force everyone into a new religion).
Or is it actually the Late Empire, that only managed to exhaust itself trying to regain the old glory and, while initially succeeding, immediatly fell apart due to infighting and was forever on the defensive until it's final collapse that wasn't even a big event, but just a simple neverending whimper (bonus points for knowing, that Constantinople could have happily survived and gotten help, if only two-sects of the same religion could finally reconscile about whether the Pope has supremacy over all bishops or if the Pope is just one bishop of many)?
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Re: New Vegas

Post by clearspira »

So who would you list as your favourite companions? For me, Boone and ED-E is my go-to. Almost makes the game too easy tbh. For personality though its Veronica. She's a tomboy who grew up in an insanely masculine environment whose dream is to own a dress - which is adorable. Her plot was a bit of a waste though as I thought saving her girlfriend in Dead Money and killing her mentor should have actually led to something more than nothing at all.
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Re: New Vegas

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clearspira wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:59 pm So who would you list as your favourite companions? For me, Boone and ED-E is my go-to. Almost makes the game too easy tbh. For personality though its Veronica. She's a tomboy who grew up in an insanely masculine environment whose dream is to own a dress - which is adorable. Her plot was a bit of a waste though as I thought saving her girlfriend in Dead Money and killing her mentor should have actually led to something more than nothing at all.
While Boone and ED-E make it to where you're practically invincible, I prefer Arcade. His commentary on events and the different players is always good to listen to, and I trust his perspective.
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Re: New Vegas

Post by Independent George »

clearspira wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:59 pm So who would you list as your favourite companions? For me, Boone and ED-E is my go-to. Almost makes the game too easy tbh. For personality though its Veronica. She's a tomboy who grew up in an insanely masculine environment whose dream is to own a dress - which is adorable. Her plot was a bit of a waste though as I thought saving her girlfriend in Dead Money and killing her mentor should have actually led to something more than nothing at all.
Agree on all counts - Veronica was my favorite, but not being able to even mention finding Christine annoyed me (or not being able to tell Christine that you traveled with a Brotherhood Scribe named Veronica, which seems like a natural conversation point). She could have had a line where tells you not to mention her to Veronica (which would have fit the theme of letting go). I get the logistics issues with having Felicia Day record a handful of new lines, but it still feels like a missed opportunity. Oh, well; it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the game.

That got me thinking about my most memorable moments from New Vegas - looking back, Dead Money actually had a lot of them. Listening to Vera's anguished cries recorded for posterity within the Sierra Madre was absolutely haunting. On the other side of it, the option to hold Christine's hand before separating to activate the gala event was incredibly heartwarming - just a simple line of text in the interface, with no voice acting or cinematics, was on par with hugging Tali in ME2. Coming back to the Mojave and hearing Vera's voice one last time, bidding you farewell.

And then, of course, Elijah's rant if you decided to lock him inside the vault (which I always do).

"You... I know you can hear me. When you die, Courier, I'll be waiting. Your grave's going to look just like this vault. When you die, I'll be waiting here... at the Sierra Madre. Waiting..."
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Re: New Vegas

Post by Beastro »

Boone and Arcade I found have the best personalities. Boone's taciturn nature is fitting plus it's fun to annoy him in places. Arcade has nice banter and his dry take on things.

Veronica and Cass I felt they tried too hard with, the former being too much the cool tech girl, the other the roughneck cowgal.

Raul and Lily I found to be fair irrelevant

I liked Dog/God.
Riedquat wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:33 am
FaxModem1 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:53 am The Legion seems to be okay with breaking their anti-tech rules when it suits them and gives them an immediate advantage, but in very limited instances. This is why, for instance, Caesar wants the Courier to destroy House's Securitrons below him instead of having his troops do so. He even states that it's because he'd have to kill them for seeing such technology. Ideology trumps practicality in a lot of ways.
The use of technology in a military setting is simply an arms race - you're stuck with it no matter what your ideology is. It's not as if ultimately it even makes any difference, it's all just relative, but you've got to keep up or be defeated.

The problems with that should be especially clear in the Fallout world.
One can see this best with the Middle Ages and how weapons and armour developed to counter one another. Some weapons and armour at times were arguably better than what came after them, but put within the context of those later times, they weren't.

The thing is wireless communication is a new plateau for warfare, that unless it becomes lost knowledge, you cannot discount. Your enemy will run rings around you send messengers out to deliver orders and reports hours out out of date at the very least.

God help you if you lack horses to boot to scouting and messangers, which the American Southwest in Fallout seems to.
Madner Kami wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:08 pm(bonus points for knowing, that Constantinople could have happily survived and gotten help, if only two-sects of the same religion could finally reconscile about whether the Pope has supremacy over all bishops or if the Pope is just one bishop of many)?
The Schism was overblown in retrospect until after the Massacre of the Latins. Byzantium's big trouble, alongside Manzikert, was the economic isolation it found itself in, something it played a huge part in by handing out the first monopolys to Venice. After that the cycle began of Venice and Genoa demanding more and more of them which began the trend of foreigners controlling all overseas trade. That bred resentment on the part of the Greeks, which bred resentment from the Italians and Franks, which eventually led to massacre and counter massacre. That the Schism was more a late 12th Century thing rather than a 11th one is highlighted by the peaceful coexistence of the Eastern and Western rites in places like Hungary and Southern Italy until after the Massacre of the Latins.

They also completely neglected their currency and were locked out of the West African gold rushing into Europe in the 12th Century largely stuck using silver. Alexios tried to reform things, but short term crisis' in the 1080s distracted him and he never got back around to it before he died. The following Komnenoi ignored such matters often to the point of disdain.
Last edited by Beastro on Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Vegas

Post by Thebestoftherest »

Beastro wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:06 am Boone and Arcade I found have the best personalities. Boone's taciturn nature is fitting plus it's fun to annoy him in places. Arcade has nice banter and his dry take on things.

Veronica and Cass I felt they tried too hard with, the former being too much the cool tech girl, the other the roughneck cowgal.

Raul and Lily I found to be fair irrelevant

I liked Dog/God.
Riedquat wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:33 am
FaxModem1 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:53 am The Legion seems to be okay with breaking their anti-tech rules when it suits them and gives them an immediate advantage, but in very limited instances. This is why, for instance, Caesar wants the Courier to destroy House's Securitrons below him instead of having his troops do so. He even states that it's because he'd have to kill them for seeing such technology. Ideology trumps practicality in a lot of ways.
The use of technology in a military setting is simply an arms race - you're stuck with it no matter what your ideology is. It's not as if ultimately it even makes any difference, it's all just relative, but you've got to keep up or be defeated.

The problems with that should be especially clear in the Fallout world.
One can see this best with the Middle Ages and how weapons and armour developed to counter one another. Some weapons and armour at times were arguably better than what came after them, but put within the context of those later times, they weren't.

The thing is wireless communication is a new plateau for warfare, that unless it becomes lost knowledge, you cannot discount. Your enemy will run rings around you send messengers out to deliver orders and reports hours out out of date at the very least.

God help you if you lack horses to boot to scouting and messangers, which the American Southwest in Fallout seems to.
Yeah, but I wonder if that is more from a technical point of view than lore wise. The lack of whatever they call horses.
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