TNG - The Masterpiece Society

[Mabus]

So a society that is specifically bred to fill in certain niches, is extremely protective of itself to the point of falling apart if its members flee (even though they could just breed other identical members in their place), but utterly fails when an outside problem appears? Sounds more like a cult than a civilization.

Weird your mind went cult when mine went totalitarian dictatorship.

BTW, it's an isolationist eugenicist culture that has absolutely no freedom or acceptance of deviation. Is there ANY culture in Trek more antithetical to Federation values?

I used the term cult, because the population appears to be quite low, and lives in a hazardous remote location far away from any other civilization, which reminded me of Jonestown.

[CharlesPhipps]

So a society that is specifically bred to fill in certain niches, is extremely protective of itself to the point of falling apart if its members flee (even though they could just breed other identical members in their place), but utterly fails when an outside problem appears? Sounds more like a cult than a civilization.

Weird your mind went cult when mine went totalitarian dictatorship.

BTW, it's an isolationist eugenicist culture that has absolutely no freedom or acceptance of deviation. Is there ANY culture in Trek more antithetical to Federation values?

I used the term cult, because the population appears to be quite low, and lives in a hazardous remote location far away from any other civilization, which reminded me of Jonestown.

I'm not so much disagreeing as pointing out this situation could be viewed as far more fucked up than Picard is acting. They're acting like they're a hidden elf village when Geordi is the only one who reacts like these guys are Nazis.

[Mabus]

So a society that is specifically bred to fill in certain niches, is extremely protective of itself to the point of falling apart if its members flee (even though they could just breed other identical members in their place), but utterly fails when an outside problem appears? Sounds more like a cult than a civilization.

Weird your mind went cult when mine went totalitarian dictatorship.

BTW, it's an isolationist eugenicist culture that has absolutely no freedom or acceptance of deviation. Is there ANY culture in Trek more antithetical to Federation values?

I used the term cult, because the population appears to be quite low, and lives in a hazardous remote location far away from any other civilization, which reminded me of Jonestown.

I'm not so much disagreeing as pointing out this situation could be viewed as far more fucked up than Picard is acting. They're acting like they're a hidden elf village when Geordi is the only one who reacts like these guys are Nazis.

I know. I was just clarifying my point.

[Riedquat]

A few hints of "change for the sake of change is good" in this review, an attitude I loathe. Change is good as a means to an end of dealing with problems, change or "evolution" aren't positive or negative in their own right. Change that removes anything negatively affecting your life is positive, change that has the opposite effect is negative.

[pilight]

BTW, it's an isolationist eugenicist culture that has absolutely no freedom or acceptance of deviation. Is there ANY culture in Trek more antithetical to Federation values?

They're not Federation members and have no desire to join so it really doesn't matter how antithetical their values are.

Weird your mind went cult when mine went totalitarian dictatorship.

The difference is only a matter of degree.

[clearspira]

BTW, it's an isolationist eugenicist culture that has absolutely no freedom or acceptance of deviation. Is there ANY culture in Trek more antithetical to Federation values?

They're not Federation members and have no desire to join so it really doesn't matter how antithetical their values are.

It only doesn't matter because the Federation will not invade for any reason other than its own defence. Living next door to a superpower that hates your guts has normally spelt death throughout history.

[AllanO]

I'm not so much disagreeing as pointing out this situation could be viewed as far more fucked up than Picard is acting. They're acting like they're a hidden elf village when Geordi is the only one who reacts like these guys are Nazis.

So you think when Picard says:
"They've given away their Humanity with this genetic manipulation. Many of the qualities that they breed out – the uncertainty, self-discovery, the unknown – these are many of the qualities that make life worth living. Well, at least to me. I wouldn't want to live my life knowing that my future was written, that my boundaries had been already set."
that`s him treating the society as "a hidden elf village", I mean elves are usually bastards so I guess...

His hand wringing at the end does not strike me as praise of the society, it is exactly like the free speech advocate who defends speech he disagrees with, the explanation being that only speech we disagree with needs the protection of freedom speech, since we don't try to suppress speech we agree with. Anything you can only defend on the basis of bare toleration is a thing which has nothing else going for it and that is all Picard does rhetorically and of course materially he just agrees to take the asylum seekers off world, so his actions are effectively condemnatory of the place...

[CharlesPhipps]

A few hints of "change for the sake of change is good" in this review, an attitude I loathe. Change is good as a means to an end of dealing with problems, change or "evolution" aren't positive or negative in their own right. Change that removes anything negatively affecting your life is positive, change that has the opposite effect is negative.

I think it depends on how much you actually ascribe the concept of perfection to exist. In this case, the society of the colonists is stagnant and literally incapable of dealing with any issues it runs into. It is incapable of change and that means when CONFRONTED with outside context problems, it's doomed. It is a society that, as Kirk would say, is incapable of growth.

Which was actually written into the Prime Directive (original recipe version) as an exception.

[drewder]

So a society that is specifically bred to fill in certain niches, is extremely protective of itself to the point of falling apart if its members flee (even though they could just breed other identical members in their place), but utterly fails when an outside problem appears? Sounds more like a cult than a civilization.

Weird your mind went cult when mine went totalitarian dictatorship.

BTW, it's an isolationist eugenicist culture that has absolutely no freedom or acceptance of deviation. Is there ANY culture in Trek more antithetical to Federation values?

I doubt if it was a ferengi colony Picard would have had any sympathy for their culture or try to stop interference.

[Deledrius]

I would hate to be a child in that society.

Except no, you wouldn't. That's entirely the point. You would love being what you are.

You're trying to apply you to a you that isn't you. It won't work.

The implications of that are pure horror.
''And here are our cotton pickers - don't worry - they love it.''
''And here is my wife. Don't worry, she loves spending her days cleaning my house.''

Yeah, definitely. That's basically the entire point of something like Brave New World as an examination of a situation where "what if it were possible to do this?"

From inside, it's Utopia where no one is ever unhappy with their lives. From outside, it's an authoritarian (depending on how it's structured and who decides what shape society has) cult filled with brainwashing horror.

I think the Federation manages to have a Utopia that feels a lot less horrifying (that is, you have to look much harder to find the cracks). Your mileage may vary.