Voyager Scorpion

[Deledrius]

It's pretty obvious what they were doing. They got lazy and used the Borg for ratings.

And it's had a lasting impact. Any show since that has tried to use the Borg immediately evokes an "again?!" response from me, which is probably not what's intended. It now always feels like either a cheap way to add "danger", or a cheap way to add a recognizable villain to put in promotional material, (or both) and the context simply can't overcome that. They can no longer be used as a credible threat.

[McAvoy]

It's pretty obvious what they were doing. They got lazy and used the Borg for ratings.

And it's had a lasting impact. Any show since that has tried to use the Borg immediately evokes an "again?!" response from me, which is probably not what's intended. It now always feels like either a cheap way to add "danger", or a cheap way to add a recognizable villain to put in promotional material, (or both) and the context simply can't overcome that. They can no longer be used as a credible threat.

Yeah I remember when the Borg ended up just being a generic Villian type and that was when Voyager took on the tactical cube.

That's when I pretty much went 'ehh' instead of being stoked to see the Borg. Which I did before. First Contact, Scorpion I was big on the Borg.

[Durandal_1707]

I mean, to be fair, First Contact was the one that did it for me. It took away a lot of their alien-ness and mystique to have them be run by a Queen who follows all the typical tropes of a totally ordinary cackling moustache-twirling villain, all the way down to trying to using sexuality to try to seduce you. I mean, come on.

Before First Contact, the Borg were almost a Ctulhu-like elder god, seeing individual lifeforms the same way we see cells of our body and not even comprehending the idea of individuality. Afterward, they were an army of zombies controlled by a sexy mad scientist.

[Deledrius]

I think we can go back and forth on that, and First Contact was definitely the origin, but I still blame Voyager for taking the most pedestrian interpretation of what we saw in First Contact and running with that version of things. It would have been possible to treat FC as a unique situation, but they didn't do that.

[Riedquat]

I think we can go back and forth on that, and First Contact was definitely the origin, but I still blame Voyager for taking the most pedestrian interpretation of what we saw in First Contact and running with that version of things. It would have been possible to treat FC as a unique situation, but they didn't do that.

I'll give First Contact a bit of a pass since it was a pretty decent film (the only Next Gen one that was), although the whole Borg Queen thing was a bit cheesy and didn't really fit with them. "Kill the boss and you kill the lot" is (aside from being rather implausible) a decent enough ending for a film but clearly brings in problems in the long run.

[McAvoy]

I think we can go back and forth on that, and First Contact was definitely the origin, but I still blame Voyager for taking the most pedestrian interpretation of what we saw in First Contact and running with that version of things. It would have been possible to treat FC as a unique situation, but they didn't do that.

I'll give First Contact a bit of a pass since it was a pretty decent film (the only Next Gen one that was), although the whole Borg Queen thing was a bit cheesy and didn't really fit with them. "Kill the boss and you kill the lot" is (aside from being rather implausible) a decent enough ending for a film but clearly brings in problems in the long run.

I agree about the Borg Queen. They made it worse in Voyager by making her too generic. I think it woukd have been better if the Borg only bring out a Queen when needed. Even it was a ill defined need.

Like if Voyager only dealt with the Borg and never the Borg Queen and Seven makes an offhand remark about that the Borg do have Queens on occasions but are usually deactivated afterwards. Then get cutoff on her explanation by Neelix or a red alert. So it would be just a mystery to the fans and keep it that way.

[clearspira]

"Kill the Queen and kill the lot", yeah precisely. That is why she was the ruin of the Borg. The Borg were dangerous because of being a hive mind. There was no negotiation. There was no appeasement. All 100,000 Borg on that Cube were coming for you and there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it apart from run away or kill them all - and they had answers for both. Resistance is futile is not just a catchphrase.

First Contact had other problems too, like making the Borg weak to bullets and knives, which makes our heroes look like idiots when they could just replicate a hundred machine guns and leaves us with the impression that SG-1 could solo a whole Cube. There are in my opinion only two good Borg stories and that's Q Who and BOBW. After that, ruined.

Speaking of SG-1, turning the Replicators human. Worst mistake ever for the exact same reasons.

[McAvoy]

"Kill the Queen and kill the lot", yeah precisely. That is why she was the ruin of the Borg. The Borg were dangerous because of being a hive mind. There was no negotiation. There was no appeasement. All 100,000 Borg on that Cube were coming for you and there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it apart from run away or kill them all - and they had answers for both. Resistance is futile is not just a catchphrase.

First Contact had other problems too, like making the Borg weak to bullets and knives, which makes our heroes look like idiots when they could just replicate a hundred machine guns and leaves us with the impression that SG-1 could solo a whole Cube. There are in my opinion only two good Borg stories and that's Q Who and BOBW. After that, ruined.

Speaking of SG-1, turning the Replicators human. Worst mistake ever for the exact same reasons.

Replicators never did it for me with their big shape. That and they were extremely vulnerable to gunfire. The humanoid Replicators were more effective in that they were like T-1000. You really needed a special big gun to take one down.

[hypocratus]

I liked that they were vulnerable to gunfire. All the other cultures they were fighting used energy weapons so it makes sense they were well defended against those. In fact, does any one other than humans use projectile weapons?

[McAvoy]

I liked that they were vulnerable to gunfire. All the other cultures they were fighting used energy weapons so it makes sense they were well defended against those. In fact, does any one other than humans use projectile weapons?

Primitive ones do. There seems to be a constant theme that once you get laser guns, you get rid of the projectile gun.

I personally like the idea that Borg are not vulnerable to bullets but they have to reconfigure their shields to handle bullets as opposed to energy weapons. Because reasons. I mean there is real reason why Borg would need to do that and no real reason why Borg would not be able to handle bullets.

Or have shields that can deflect physical force like the butt of a rifle or a knife or a fist.