Babylon 5: Epiphanies

[Riedquat]

In all seriousness, I'm actually looking forward to the day, when man and machine become more intimate. I do not deny the problematic implications, if which you named one there though. As always when it comes to humans, there's the potential for the highest highs and the lowest lows at the same time.

Sounds like my worst nightmare; I seriously hope it doesn't happen in my lifetime.

[Madner Kami]

Sounds like my worst nightmare; I seriously hope it doesn't happen in my lifetime.

Why though? Humans have become ever more integrated with machines ever since we enhanced our fists with stones. Or are you scared of glasses, because someone equipped with them might see better than you do?

[Frustration]

Before we know it, Youtube will be in your dreams trying to sell you products. I am not joking.

The dreams enter your head just like the fluid enters this egg:

[injects fluid into egg]

[egg explodes everywhere]

Anyway, it's all done with harmless gamma radiation!

[hammerofglass]

It's all fun and games until the corporation that installed your cyberware disables your serotonin unless you pay an additional subscription.

[Fianna]

Telepathy should be treated as magic because as of right now there isn't anything that suggests anyone is capable of sending or reading thoughts from one person to another. Like somehow we will access or activate some part of the brain that can do that. Might as well say that once we activate some part of our eyes we get laser eyes.

Keeping how telepathy works in scifi vague works better than going through some bullshit psuedo science explanation which can be easily dated.

In Babylon 5's case, telepathy in humans (and, it's implied, in other species) is the result of Vorlons changing up our biology. And for humanity this happened relatively recently, sometime in the past couple centuries, explaining how we went from our current state of no-confirmed-cases-of-ESP to them being so prominent in the show's future.

[Riedquat]

Sounds like my worst nightmare; I seriously hope it doesn't happen in my lifetime.

Why though? Humans have become ever more integrated with machines ever since we enhanced our fists with stones. Or are you scared of glasses, because someone equipped with them might see better than you do?

Are you seriously suggesting that you see no difference between using machines and being integrated with them? That's just daft. Even when it comes to using machines I generally prefer as little and as low tech as is reasonable practical without life being unpleasantly crap. There are exceptions of course, I've no respect for anyone who thinks it's sensible to take one very simple position and stick with it - or people who try a "one extreme or the other" type argument, and in this case medicine, science, and entertainment - make them as high tech as you'd like.

You seem to have a bit of an issue with someone having a different opinion to yourself on this.

[hammerofglass]

Once they start selling good quality AR HUD smartglasses I am absolutely going to be one of those people who can't function without them. Real life needs subtitles.

[Madner Kami]

Are you seriously suggesting that you see no difference between using machines and being integrated with them?

Not to the degree you seem to see. Ever since we invented the fist stone tools, it appears clear to me that those tools are mostly percieved as an extension of our capabilities or an add-on to our capabilities and as such are being integrated into our senses and with our bodies, to the best of our abilities. As such, it feels very natural to me, to integrate the tools into our very bodies, once it becomes feasible.

That's just daft.

No, I am just following a train of thought that seems to run through humanity's technological development like a red thread.

Even when it comes to using machines I generally prefer as little and as low tech as is reasonable practical without life being unpleasantly crap.

That's your choice and that is fine. I don't always carry a knife with me. I will always have a knife with me, when I am "outdooring". I probably wouldn't integrate a knife into my body, as it's a tool I'd not need to carry around 24/7. A retinal implant that allows to me to link information from the internet directly into my perception, however, is almost always useful. I'd totally do that (if I could expect Google not to throw in an advert into my view at the most inopportune time or, rather, at all that is. But that is an entirely different discussion and problem, although related.).

There are exceptions of course, I've no respect for anyone who thinks it's sensible to take one very simple position and stick with it - or people who try a "one extreme or the other" type argument, and in this case medicine, science, and entertainment - make them as high tech as you'd like.

So you have no problem with a pacemaker? Or, say, a filtration system for your failing kidneys? A leg replacement? But you draw an arbitrary line when it comes to... what exactly? Things you, personally, do not deem necessary for your very own personal choices? To me, that feels quite random and I'd like to understand where that quasi-luddite point of view comes from.

You seem to have a bit of an issue with someone having a different opinion to yourself on this.

No, not at all. It's just your point of view and others similar to it are bewildering to me. I can't see you making a statement against artifical lenses in someone's eyes, but if those lenses are capable of showing more than the proverbial and literal eye could see, it's somehow less desirable.
I think I did mention that I did study information sciences. Outside of encryption, interface design was one the themes I was most interested in and was actually writing my master-thesis about, before I decided to work in a more physical environment. What became clear to me is, that we always try to make our machines in such a way, that they naturally blend in with our perceptions and capabilities and that those machines which do that the best, are the ones we like to use the most. In essence, a good designed interface made the machine a natural part of the human body, so to speak. For me, integrating these machines literally into our bodies, is just that small extra step that makes everything better. When I drive a car and try to percieve all the information it gives me beyond the obvious like the tachometer and I get into the zone, the car is a part of me. I feel it leaning into the corners. I notice when the tires begin to slip. The rattling of the wheel when I come too close to the lane-lines. The kick going through the car, my body, "our" body, when the turbocharger's lag is off. This feels good to me, even when I just drive along an empty and straight road.
When I need some information and have to use my phone, I draw it out of my pocket, I twirl it around my fingers to flip open the cover in a swift and (hopefully) elegant manner, I swipe, put my thumb on the scanner, hit the microphone button while dragging it to my mouth to dictate my question. I make it a part of me, as best as I can. If I could replace that with a thought and a flicker in my eye, all the better.

To me, this is very much a desired state of being.

[Deledrius]

It's all fun and games until the corporation that installed your cyberware disables your serotonin unless you pay an additional subscription.

That's the issue. We could have it either way, but history shows we'll pick the dystopia nearly every time.

Humans are not great at collective decision-making.

[Fianna]

I do think there's a distinction between integrating technology with our bodies and integrating technology with our brains.

Most of the human body is just another tool: limbs to move us around, skin and bones to shield us from hazards, sensory organs to give us information, a bunch of other organs to keep us alive, etc. If you can replace parts of the body with machines that perform the same functions, plus provide a bunch of additional perks, great!

However, our brains are where our consciousness comes from. In essence, we ARE our brains, and the rest of the body is just the meatsuit we ride around in. So a technological implant that alters the structure of your brain is something that risks changing or destroying who you are as a person, your internal sense of self.