Yukaphile wrote: ↑Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:32 am
True. Though IIRC, wasn't Riker yelling at her to do so? Turning Data into a psychopath, that I could see him attacking her endlessly over. I mean... that he turned her own words back on her, when later on even the three of them are discussing "negative emotions," and she encourages exploring the "darker" aspects of your psyche? Really does paint her, if not the worst at her job, then at least somewhere around "average," whether below or slightly above, whatever. But crashing the Enterprise seems like a multiple-person fuckup here. She was to blame. So was Riker. So was everyone on the bridge who didn't have the good sense to think to attack them back. Or point out Riker was the best pilot. Hell, Insurrection, for as flawed as it was, remembered this.
I think the issue with Troi is that she seems to lack proper growth and was at times badly written. Basically she had this great ability that should have given the ship and crew a very hefty advantage. Noting the heightened aggression and anticipation on the bird of prey should have warned her the Duras sisters were going to fire and so forth. But the power could cut dramatic writing or make things difficult. So suddenly she is less than competent. Counselors having some insight into the actions of others is rough to write so this bled over to Ezri so she was less than stellar at her job.
And when they wanted to make her intelligent and show continuity. She spoke technically down to Geordi and Data. Marina Sirtis was taken back by that one. Loved her line about it by the way. While she had cleavage, she was book dumb. Lose the cleavage and her brain was allowed to work. But explaining Romulan power sources to Geordi and Data she did a check to see if they suddenly had cleavage.
To me the curve of the saucer section was determined by plot. Not her piloting skill. They were pointed away from the planet when the drive section detonated. The real reason they crashed was the need to blow up another Enterprise because they had all the mileage out of that model and wanted to sell new toys. Err make a more movie quality model. . .
She always was the sex model. Never moved beyond that. Remember "Disaster?" When they were offering their suggestions to their superior officer, all she could hear was, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
I'm not sure how much other movies based on shows do this, but I really liked all the easter eggs that they through in the TNG Trek movies. Like I don't think X-Files movies had that much in them.
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:32 am
True. Though IIRC, wasn't Riker yelling at her to do so? Turning Data into a psychopath, that I could see him attacking her endlessly over. I mean... that he turned her own words back on her, when later on even the three of them are discussing "negative emotions," and she encourages exploring the "darker" aspects of your psyche? Really does paint her, if not the worst at her job, then at least somewhere around "average," whether below or slightly above, whatever. But crashing the Enterprise seems like a multiple-person fuckup here. She was to blame. So was Riker. So was everyone on the bridge who didn't have the good sense to think to attack them back. Or point out Riker was the best pilot. Hell, Insurrection, for as flawed as it was, remembered this.
I think the issue with Troi is that she seems to lack proper growth and was at times badly written. Basically she had this great ability that should have given the ship and crew a very hefty advantage. Noting the heightened aggression and anticipation on the bird of prey should have warned her the Duras sisters were going to fire and so forth. But the power could cut dramatic writing or make things difficult. So suddenly she is less than competent. Counselors having some insight into the actions of others is rough to write so this bled over to Ezri so she was less than stellar at her job.
And when they wanted to make her intelligent and show continuity. She spoke technically down to Geordi and Data. Marina Sirtis was taken back by that one. Loved her line about it by the way. While she had cleavage, she was book dumb. Lose the cleavage and her brain was allowed to work. But explaining Romulan power sources to Geordi and Data she did a check to see if they suddenly had cleavage.
To me the curve of the saucer section was determined by plot. Not her piloting skill. They were pointed away from the planet when the drive section detonated. The real reason they crashed was the need to blow up another Enterprise because they had all the mileage out of that model and wanted to sell new toys. Err make a more movie quality model. . .
In fairness Ezri being a questionable counselor could be due to the mess with the emergency joining she went through that messed with her head since we never saw her pre joining. Troi doesn't have much of an excuse.
also keep in mind that ezri was a complete rookie of a counselor, who never even technically finished her training.
the unfortunate thing about ezri though, is that the character had a great deal of potential, and absolutely no chance to develop any of it in only one season. consider that we've been shown and told how joining is an honor granted only to the best of the best of the best, after years of intensive training, and now it's been thrust upon someone completely unprepared and unqualified, who never even wanted it to begin with. that should've been the beginning of a massive character arc; bringing order to the chaos eight conflicting identities, building a new one without losing her own. having to deal with changing relationships with people she's known for years, but has never actually met before.
if they'd killed jadzia a season of two earlier, ezri could've grown into a fantastic and unique character. but as it was, season seven was so packed with other arcs needing to get resolved, that they just didn't have the time. as a consequence, most of her story ended up revolving around sorting out her relationship with worf.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
J!! wrote: ↑Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:22 am
also keep in mind that ezri was a complete rookie of a counselor, who never even technically finished her training.
the unfortunate thing about ezri though, is that the character had a great deal of potential, and absolutely no chance to develop any of it in only one season. consider that we've been shown and told how joining is an honor granted only to the best of the best of the best, after years of intensive training, and now it's been thrust upon someone completely unprepared and unqualified, who never even wanted it to begin with. that should've been the beginning of a massive character arc; bringing order to the chaos eight conflicting identities, building a new one without losing her own. having to deal with changing relationships with people she's known for years, but has never actually met before.
if they'd killed jadzia a season of two earlier, ezri could've grown into a fantastic and unique character. but as it was, season seven was so packed with other arcs needing to get resolved, that they just didn't have the time. as a consequence, most of her story ended up revolving around sorting out her relationship with worf.
I think the way I would have done it is to introduce Ezri at the start of season 6 as the newly assigned counselor of DS9. It makes sense to have one on a wartime station right next to the wormhole after all, far more than it ever did on the Enterprise-D. Then, when Dukat kills Jadzia, we could have actually seen Bashir not only put the symbiont inside of her because it was dying, but we could have sown the seeds of their relationship in a far more meaningful way. Them getting together always came off as rushed and just a little bit creepy to me as we don't know how badly Jadzia's feelings for him were affecting her. That rule that was introduced a few seasons before about Trills not being able to get with the partners of previous hosts (the one with the infamous lesbian kiss) actually makes a lot more sense when you consider it as protection for the new and very confused host.
Well, Bashir grew as a character. No reason Ezri couldn't have.
"A culture's teachings - and more importantly, the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking."
— Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords
I'm not so sure what's so unbelievable about the spores in Discovery. they aren't regular mushrooms but extradimensional mushrooms from a sub-reality that probably has different physical laws.
and magic has been in Trek before in both Magas-Tu and the Q. before you say the Q simply have abilities beyond current understanding, that's really the same thing as calling it magic. magic is just science we don't understand yet.
Dragon Ball Fan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:14 pm
I'm not so sure what's so unbelievable about the spores in Discovery. they aren't regular mushrooms but extradimensional mushrooms from a sub-reality that probably has different physical laws.
and magic has been in Trek before in both Magas-Tu and the Q. before you say the Q simply have abilities beyond current understanding, that's really the same thing as calling it magic. magic is just science we don't understand yet.
Ah, the old "it doesn't have to have any internal consistency whatsoever" gambit of fiction writing.
Not all unknowns are the same. Not all improbabilities are equally improbable.
If you want to use "it's magic, so it doesn't need to make sense" as an excuse, then why even bother at all?
