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I find the idea that there needs to be a sex planet rather ridiculous. It's not like sex is that difficult to get, presumably, in the 23rd century (or ours for that matter). The attitude to sex in these shows is more confusing than anything else as you wouldn't think we'd need a wink wink nudge nudge.

The only other sex planet that's been mentioned in Trek was "Wrigley's pleasure planet" in "The Man Trap". Would have made more sense to make that the location rather than Risa.

Warclam wrote: ↑Sun May 06, 2018 3:28 am

Makeshift Python wrote: ↑Sun May 06, 2018 2:58 am

Warclam wrote: ↑Sun May 06, 2018 1:23 am I was really curious. After all the episodes of STD that Chuck has been covering lately, will Enterprise seem startlingly close to adequate by comparison?

Yes, actually. For me, anyway. It's a YMMV sort of situation I suppose, but I find tedium far preferable to fetishizing misery and shitting on the series' lore.

Judging both the first seasons of ENT and DIS strictly as television shows, I think the former gets blown out of the water. DIS isn't a perfect show, but it at least has some energy to it to make it more engaging IMO.

Now if we're talking about the third season of ENT, that's a much better show than DIS's first season. Hopefully the new show will improve as it moves ahead like ENT managed to do.

STD is less incompetent, I'll give you that. But I can laugh at Enterprise's inept flailing. STD is yet another show about how everything is horrible and everyone is dead. There are too many. I never wanted one, frankly. I have never watched Game of Thrones, and never will, because I loathe grimdark. And now goddamn everything, even Star Trek of all things, is ugly, bloody, miserable action schlock, and my resentment and disdain just kind of bubbles out uncontrollably.

I feel this is exaggerated. As someone that watches GAME OF THRONES, DIS is no where near that level of "grimdark". It's much closer to how dark DS9 and ENT would get IMO, but I understand there fans in the past didn't like how dark those shows got either. Now with the Klingon war story seemingly over with, I am hoping that there will be a bit more levity.

I think they would have used it if Wrigley's Pleasure Planet didn't sound ridiculous.

I'm sorry, I can't take the phrase "Wrigley's Pleasure Planet" seriously. The only thing that it makes me think is, "On this world, whatever you do, do not chew the gum."

clearspira wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 7:28 pm

King of the owls wrote: ↑Sat May 05, 2018 6:17 pm Everything about this episode is dull-even the aesthetics of Risa feel uninspired and beige.(And it wasn't like the aesthetics of Risa were amazing in the TNG era.)

I also feel like this episode could had worked....if you tweak one or two things. Remove the Archer nonsense.(Maybe he and T'Pol stay on the ship.) And make Reed and Tucker plot the focus and make it more of wild night than well what does happen. Hell have Hoshi and Mayweather tag along and I don't know do anything but what the episode ends up doing.

I try not to pick on Enterprise too much because it has its fans and I've seen worse TV but it does say something when I would have more entraining time cleaning my desk than re-watching this episode.

I used to pick on Voyager, then Enterprise came out. I used to pick on Enterprise, then the Abrams reboot came out. I used to pick on the Abrams reboot, then Discovery came out. I don't complain as much anymore because Trek keeps on setting new lows for me.
Do I have rose-tinted glasses? Oh, absolutely. My mind blocks out season three of TOS, season one of TNG and season seven of DS9. But when they were at their best, they were levels of awesome that the other series just did not achieve. Put it this way: non-Trek fans know ''City on the Edge of Forever.'' They know ''The Best of Both Worlds'' if only because of First Contact. They know ''there are only four lights''. But I guarantee you that the most famous aspect for non-fans beyond TNG is Seven of Nine's boobs.

Hey! Show Seven's catsuit some respect!

Though, I do have to say that the U.S.S. Ben Sisko's Muthaf@#$ing Pimp Hand is iconic in its own right. Be very glad that you omitted that in a time and space where the fourth wall protects you, otherwise the Sisko would come at you for insulting his real son!

Asvarduil wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 2:11 pm I'm sorry, I can't take the phrase "Wrigley's Pleasure Planet" seriously. The only thing that it makes me think is, "On this world, whatever you do, do not chew the gum."

Wrigley, wrigley...

Asvarduil wrote: ↑Mon May 07, 2018 2:21 pm Though, I do have to say that the U.S.S. Ben Sisko's Muthaf@#$ing Pimp Hand is iconic in its own right.

Thank you! I think you're cool too!

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sun May 06, 2018 9:00 pm I find the idea that there needs to be a sex planet rather ridiculous. It's not like sex is that difficult to get, presumably, in the 23rd century (or ours for that matter). The attitude to sex in these shows is more confusing than anything else as you wouldn't think we'd need a wink wink nudge nudge.

Given the fact that we now have an actual terrorist movement centered around sex being apparently too difficult to get, and that it's apparently grown large enough to be able to successfully take over the government of the most powerful nation on Earth, this doesn't seem to be true.

Hell, maybe that's why Risa exists; it's Starfleet's way of preventing this from happening again. Just get rid of all the MRA types by dumping them on Wrigley's where they can go get spearminted all day long and leave the rest of us alone. Maybe put some nuclear-armed satellites in orbit just in case they get any thoughts about leaving.

The idea of a touristy "vacation planet" developing the reputation of being a "sex planet" doesn't seem implausible to me.

I don't see many legitimate reasons for setting an episode there, though. I see the two major possibilities as-

1) Following hapless would-be Lotharios, which has been a staple of sitcoms for over fifty years.
2) Someone getting caught up in a romantic, adventurous intrigue, the route taken in Captain's Holiday.

The problem with (1) is that seeing supposedly serious, competent characters act like bumbling idiots usually sucks, as it does in this episode. I think (2) could work, it's just that Trek has never really pulled it off very well, especially with the stiff formality that's inherent to the writing of most modern Trek series.

TOS' Shore Leave did it right, imo, by realizing that no one cares to see the actual vacation (that all took place offscreen between the final act and the tag scene), it's just a setting for the scenario. Two Days and Two Nights just flounders all the way through, and never even really attempts anything of interest.

ChiggyvonRichthofen wrote: ↑Tue May 08, 2018 10:14 pmI don't see many legitimate reasons for setting an episode there, though. I see the two major possibilities as-

1) Following hapless would-be Lotharios, which has been a staple of sitcoms for over fifty years.
2) Someone getting caught up in a romantic, adventurous intrigue, the route taken in Captain's Holiday.

There are ways to build a story around a holiday spot, but you have to really commit to it instead of treating it as a chance for wacky hijinks or fanservice. A few quick ideas:

3. Its presence as a holiday destination makes it a logical location for espionage. There's lots of traffic in and out, from all corners of the galaxy, making it easy to both mask movements transfer information, people or things - especially if there's an unwritten rule among the great powers leaving it as neutral ground.

4. You can have a bottle episode where a main character is granted leave after suffering a debilitating injury or traumatic event in a previous episode. Risa is meant to be recuperating, but is too scarred to enjoy the experience, and keeps seeing plots and threats.

5. Explore a seedy underbelly hiding beneath the glamour - less Blue Hawaii, and more Casino. There's already a (completely unintentional) vibe that the planet is basically a respectable brothel; let there be illicit drugs and hustlers.

6. Put a (suspected) retired war criminal on the planet. Risa has an interest in maintaining the privacy of its clients, and would resist attempts to investigate... but they also have an interest in not being a haven for criminals. There is a political problem in both finding out if someone is a criminal, and if so, quietly getting him out. Having a Federation ship dock there for shore leave makes a good cover for a discreet investigative team, with or without the Risan government's support/knowledge.