VOY: Juggernaut

[9ansean]

Regarding the amount of space they need to dump pollution into, it could be some territorial thing, such as different companies have to stake claims on where they dump their pollution, and can't dump in another company's space(and we already know from Juggernaut that they're not supposed to dump in inhabited systems). This makes it to where the Malon are in a sort of California Gold Rush situation, always expanding and looking for new territories to dump, so as to stake a claim somewhere so that other Malon dumpers have to move on and find some other place to claim, giving them a place they can take their pollution and dump away from their homeworld, making a profit.

Of course, if they fixed their ships and power generators, things would be a lot easier, as explained by Voyager's crew in Night:

TORRES: The residual anti-matter is then processed in the transkinetic chamber, where it's broken down on the subatomic level.
EMCK: What about the theta radiation?
TORRES: Oh, it's absorbed by a series of radiometric converters. We recycle the energy, use it to power everything from life support to replicators.
EMCK: We don't have this kind of conversion technology.
TORRES: Our scans of your freighter show that you have plasma manifolds. The engineering principles are the same.
CHAKOTAY: We're not saying this won't take some effort. You're looking at several months of retrofitting, depending on the size of your fleet. All the schematics are here, and we'd be willing to work with you, get you started. We can even provide you with some converters.
EMCK: Ingenious design. Our engineers would be pleased. This would solve a lot of problems on my world. Unfortunately, it would also put me out of business.
CHAKOTAY: Sorry?
EMCK: Your technology would throw the waste export industry into chaos. Before long, I'd be obsolete. I came here hoping your claims were exaggerated, but I can see they're not. You can keep your solution.
TORRES: You lying
CHAKOTAY: B'Elanna.
TORRES: We went through this whole song and dance and he never had any intention of working with us.
CHAKOTAY: That's not important. What matters is that we're talking now. We're proposing changes, some of them difficult, but progress can also bring new opportunities. Given time, this could turn to your advantage.
EMCK: I already have the advantage. The vortex. No one knows about it except me and my crew. By ejecting my cargo here I cut expenses in half. I won't sacrifice that.

The issue is, when we run into the artist Captain from Juggernaut:

TORRES: How can you stand to work in these conditions?
FESEK: You think we're animals, don't you?
TORRES: You said it, not me.
FESEK: I'm a waste controller half the year. Do you know what I do the rest of the time? I'm a sculptor.
TORRES: What's your point?
FESEK: Every year I give up work I love to expose myself to radiation that will probably cut my life in half.
TORRES: Then why do it?
FESEK: Have you ever been to Malon Prime? It's a remarkable place. It's one of the most beautiful worlds you'll ever see. Our planet would choke with industrial wastes if it weren't for the sacrifices of people like me.
TORRES: How many worlds are you willing to contaminate to keep your own home so tidy?
FESEK: Do you have any idea of the trouble we go to, to locate isolated areas? Ah, manual actuators. I'll release them, you monitor the pressure variance.
TORRES: Right.
FESEK: Do you have any children?
TORRES: No.
FESEK: I have a son. He's seven years old. He wants to be a waste controller when he grows up.
TORRES: You must be very proud.

The issue is, Torres right then and there should have told Fesek about their technology that could fix the Malon's problems. That no one on Voyager thinks to do so is a huge plothole, and would end the Malon as any sort of threat.

Yes. That was what I found to be the most galling thing.

For the most part of kind of liked the Malon in a so-bad-there funny kind of why. Yet I did welcome their attempts to flesh them out somewhat in this episode, even if it suffered the same limitations they had with the Ferengai. When you've got a species meant to represent the worst in society, it's a hard to make any of them sympathetic without straining credibility.

In this case it was already a bizarre that they supposedly run out of space to store there waste on an entire planet, managed to master tech to travel into space, and built an entire industry around waste exports, all without searching for a means of reuse or an alternate energy source. Still if we go with that premise we can see a different in outlooks between EMCK and FESEK.

The former is your standard corporate villain. Greedy, lazy, and indifferent to the more primitive species hurt by their actions. Even though Chakotay makes he clear he could make even more money patenting the new tech, he'd rather take the easy way out. (What's stopping anyone on his crew from leaking the Vortex to his competitors is never addressed). The later by contrast sees his job merely as a mean to an end and he's willing to go outside his route to keep others safer. He knows this job shortens the workers life span and he has little time to spend with his children or his art, but he still prides himself on keeping their planet uncontaminated.

So upon learning he's more benevolent, WHY THE HELL DOESN'T TORRES REINSTATE THE ORIGINAL OFFER? Sure there might be some resistance from the Malon Government, but with FESEK in her court you'd think they'd at least be willing to try it. Heck in Thirty Days when only one member of the aquatic species respected Tom's warnings about what they were doing to their environment even after their council voted against him, it was enough for Torres to talk him into committing what might be considered eco-terrorism!

[9ansean]

The issue is, Torres right then and there should have told Fesek about their technology that could fix the Malon's problems. That no one on Voyager thinks to do so is a huge plothole, and would end the Malon as any sort of threat.

Yeah, it's problematic that this was an episode that was meant to further develop the Malon...and once again it's only a garbage freighter. When we first met the Malon, it was just one ship that was dumping, so it made sense that it was a single vessel that wasn't representative of their society. They're not a culture of polluters, they're presumably a culture that, as a byproduct of what they actually do, creates a lot of pollution. An entire species on Star Trek shouldn't be as cheesy as a Captain Planet villain.

Surely there's some other way they could have encountered the Malon, if the goal was to actually develop the species. They could have encountered an actual Malon planet, seen what the Malon look like when they're not wearing those outfits that look like radiation suits. It would probably look like a charming and cultured society, but what brings it together is that we already know there's a seedy underbelly.

This is why I something thing the "planet of hats" problem is overstated. Unless you're going to have regular scenes on a certain world, the number of representatives or a culture are going to be limited. So if only go members of that species have any reason to leave their planet, then of course they can't represent everyone. Which would seem to fit if we assume the only Malon who don't stay home and enjoy the good life that most others in the Delta Quadrant can't afford, our the ones disposing of the ugly underbelly threatening the population in hostile territory. Likewise the Hirogen only mention the female thinking relics of the hunt for eligible males, so that would explain where their families don't join them in the hunting.

I don't think we necessarily need to say an entire planet in order present a species as more than personas. The important things is to establish various roles or outlooks in words or actions.

[TheStarWarsTrek]

This is why I something thing the "planet of hats" problem is overstated. Unless you're going to have regular scenes on a certain world, the number of representatives or a culture are going to be limited. So if only go members of that species have any reason to leave their planet, then of course they can't represent everyone. Which would seem to fit if we assume the only Malon who don't stay home and enjoy the good life that most others in the Delta Quadrant can't afford, our the ones disposing of the ugly underbelly threatening the population in hostile territory. Likewise the Hirogen only mention the female thinking relics of the hunt for eligible males, so that would explain where their families don't join them in the hunting.

I don't think we necessarily need to say an entire planet in order present a species as more than personas. The important things is to establish various roles or outlooks in words or actions.

I still think Planet of Hats can be a major problem if not handled right because 1) it promotes simplistic writing/cliches 2) it can lead to Unfortunate Implications.

My favorite example is the Rodians in Star Wars. The first Rodian we see is a bounty hunter, so naturally authors decided that it's a species wide trait, and for a while every single Rodian we saw was thug of some kind. Not only is this lazy writing, but some novels had Mon Mothma and Leia, some of the chief Good Guys of the New Republic . . . say some pretty shocking things about Rodians. (Ironically one of the Clone Wars episodes had Padme as good friends with a Rodian senator, portraying her as way more tolerant than her daughter would end up being).

[9ansean]

This is why I something thing the "planet of hats" problem is overstated. Unless you're going to have regular scenes on a certain world, the number of representatives or a culture are going to be limited. So if only go members of that species have any reason to leave their planet, then of course they can't represent everyone. Which would seem to fit if we assume the only Malon who don't stay home and enjoy the good life that most others in the Delta Quadrant can't afford, our the ones disposing of the ugly underbelly threatening the population in hostile territory. Likewise the Hirogen only mention the female thinking relics of the hunt for eligible males, so that would explain where their families don't join them in the hunting.

I don't think we necessarily need to say an entire planet in order present a species as more than personas. The important things is to establish various roles or outlooks in words or actions.

I still think Planet of Hats can be a major problem if not handled right because 1) it promotes simplistic writing/cliches 2) it can lead to Unfortunate Implications.

My favorite example is the Rodians in Star Wars. The first Rodian we see is a bounty hunter, so naturally authors decided that it's a species wide trait, and for a while every single Rodian we saw was thug of some kind. Not only is this lazy writing, but some novels had Mon Mothma and Leia, some of the chief Good Guys of the New Republic . . . say some pretty shocking things about Rodians. (Ironically one of the Clone Wars episodes had Padme as good friends with a Rodian senator, portraying her as way more tolerant than her daughter would end up being).

Well it usual is taking the easy way out in writing. That's why I tried to say (but clearly miswrote which I writing problem of come to believe is a form is dysgraphia) that the problem is SOMETIMES overstated. And yes it can risk reinforcing stereotypes and encourage a great dealing of prejudice that's casual brushed aside in your protagonists (as the TOS movies recognized with the Klingon).

[Beastro]

The issue is, when we run into the artist Captain from Juggernaut:

TORRES: How can you stand to work in these conditions?
FESEK: You think we're animals, don't you?
TORRES: You said it, not me.
FESEK: I'm a waste controller half the year. Do you know what I do the rest of the time? I'm a sculptor.
TORRES: What's your point?
FESEK: Every year I give up work I love to expose myself to radiation that will probably cut my life in half.
TORRES: Then why do it?
FESEK: Have you ever been to Malon Prime? It's a remarkable place. It's one of the most beautiful worlds you'll ever see. Our planet would choke with industrial wastes if it weren't for the sacrifices of people like me.
TORRES: How many worlds are you willing to contaminate to keep your own home so tidy?
FESEK: Do you have any idea of the trouble we go to, to locate isolated areas? Ah, manual actuators. I'll release them, you monitor the pressure variance.
TORRES: Right.
FESEK: Do you have any children?
TORRES: No.
FESEK: I have a son. He's seven years old. He wants to be a waste controller when he grows up.
TORRES: You must be very proud.

The issue is, Torres right then and there should have told Fesek about their technology that could fix the Malon's problems. That no one on Voyager thinks to do so is a huge plothole, and would end the Malon as any sort of threat.

I forgot about that silly line about being a sculptor.

The Malon keep reminding me of an old Canadian cartoon from the 80s, Stop the Smoggies with the ship that vents tons of quantities of pollution as it chugs along:



All I can say about the comparison is that the Voyager crew weren't as annoying as the stupid little Suntot good guys in it. It's one of those shows where you want the bad guys to win.