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Riedquat wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:00 pm Quite - I find it unfortunate that Picard (the series) painted it a bit too simple black and white for that reason, even though in that case I agree with Picard (the character). The lack of nuance all round though is something I did find a bit disappointing, and that it's been publically declared an analogy of Brexit ignorant and dismissive.

There's a much better moral lesson when you can recognise the genuine risks, both with the androids and Romulans, and still decided to help them. In the hopelessly risk-averse society we seem to live in today there's too much denial that the risks are there, rather than accepting them and thinking it's still the right thing to do.

Link8909 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:51 pm This was another good episode, I really liked the Androids in this, really good makeup work and great performance.

It's also quite funny that Picard never got into Science fiction, since his passion is archaeology.

Also love the review, the Janeway bit was brilliant.

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:37 pm

FlynnTaggart wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:27 am I wonder if the uprising robot F8, Fate, was done on purpose as some symbolism or a coincidence.

Anyway I didn't hate this episode all honestly. The secret secret Romulan police was kind of interesting even if their mission was stupid. Admiral O'Swearypants was kinda annoying for obvious reasons but I liked that she stood up to Picard, that she wasn't going to stand for his shit. I can't blame her for being made, Picard had 14 years ago nearly broke the Federation to save their mortal enemy and then bad mouthed them again like yesterday, dude could have atleast waited a week or so before begging for a boat.

If you can't save a mortal enemy when it is inconvenient to yourself, you don't deserve plaudits for helping when it is.

Starfleet would have been just as wrong and morally cowardly in a weeks time as it had been for the last fourteen years. Picard was completely in the right, and saying that he ought to have waited is just like Marge Simpson saying "its right, but you shouldn't say it". And why should anyone wait another week, when they've waited already fourteen years too long already. You do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because it is the easy thing or the convenient thing. Too many wrong things, these last 19 years IRL, have been done out of convenience or ease or fear. We've all waited long enough for someone to start doing the morally right thing again.

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:37 pm

FlynnTaggart wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:27 am I wonder if the uprising robot F8, Fate, was done on purpose as some symbolism or a coincidence.

Anyway I didn't hate this episode all honestly. The secret secret Romulan police was kind of interesting even if their mission was stupid. Admiral O'Swearypants was kinda annoying for obvious reasons but I liked that she stood up to Picard, that she wasn't going to stand for his shit. I can't blame her for being made, Picard had 14 years ago nearly broke the Federation to save their mortal enemy and then bad mouthed them again like yesterday, dude could have atleast waited a week or so before begging for a boat.

If you can't save a mortal enemy when it is inconvenient to yourself, you don't deserve plaudits for helping when it is.

Starfleet would have been just as wrong and morally cowardly in a weeks time as it had been for the last fourteen years. Picard was completely in the right, and saying that he ought to have waited is just like Marge Simpson saying "its right, but you shouldn't say it". And why should anyone wait another week, when they've waited already fourteen years too long already. You do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because it is the easy thing or the convenient thing. Too many wrong things, these last 19 years IRL, have been done out of convenience or ease or fear. We've all waited long enough for someone to start doing the morally right thing again.

clearspira wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:44 pm
Nope, as I said before. The only logical response when your enemy is in trouble is to kick him in the balls and then either break his legs or expose his neck.

Morals and principles when it comes to dealing with an expansionist empire gets you invaded.

Riedquat wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:55 pm

clearspira wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:44 pm
Nope, as I said before. The only logical response when your enemy is in trouble is to kick him in the balls and then either break his legs or expose his neck.

Morals and principles when it comes to dealing with an expansionist empire gets you invaded.

That's the sort of thing that keeps hatreds going for centuries past their sell-by date.

clearspira wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:42 am

Riedquat wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:55 pm

clearspira wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:44 pm
Nope, as I said before. The only logical response when your enemy is in trouble is to kick him in the balls and then either break his legs or expose his neck.

Morals and principles when it comes to dealing with an expansionist empire gets you invaded.

That's the sort of thing that keeps hatreds going for centuries past their sell-by date.

So just to be clear: you think that kindness will stop an empire from invading you. That is your position?

*Pssst* Look up how often the Native Americans helped out the white settlers in the early days and see where that got them.

I smell a certain amount of naivety in this forum regarding the nature of how expansionist, authoritarian governments work - which sadly really does explain how the president of China went from being pulled around in a golden carriage through London into ''He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named'' in the span of David Cameron to Boris Johnson but I digress.
FYI: Pulling the thorn out of the giant's foot may or may not net you a best friend; but there will always be a hundred more giants waiting behind him who still hate you. They will still covet your lands, hate your god, hate your culture, hate your skin colour, hate the fact that your women or gays have rights etc. and one day they will put themselves back into a position of influence.