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Meushell wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:04 am
He’s basically right because the script says he’s right. This is especially true in JP2. At least that’s how it always felt to me. As for Jeff Goldblum... While I don’t have much of an opinion on him, I do wonder if another actor could have made Ian more tolerable. Ian always comes off as an arrogant prick when he’s declaring his theories or making his arguments.

But that's the point, he'sa bit of a prick and that's part of his charm for folks.

My problem is and has always been that he's a dinosaur hating jackass who never gives consideration to them. They didn't ask for ANY of this. They were created to be theme park attractions, products, their purpose is to entertain. They aren't allowed to be animals, to be free, only caged and used for leisure at best, weapons at worst. They are a species born without inherent right to dignity and life. They are victims in this too.

And all Ian Malcolm can see are a bunch of monsters that need to be exterminated so "God" essentially can be satisfied. He takes no consideration that they are a lifeform created by man and we are responsible for them. So when he came back in Fallen Kingdom to advocate for their destruction, it was in his character... but it only confirmed to me why I hated him.

And yes, it's obvious enough, my sympathies lie with the dinosaurs. I agree with letting them go in Fallen Kingdom. If that upsets you, feel free to disagree with me. My main crux right here is that Ian Malcolm has advocated for shrugging responsibility over the welfare of creatures mankind has unfairly exploited... by murdering them. Either through direct or indirect action.

If the new Jurassic World movies have done anything right it is finally giving the dinosaurs the recognition they deserve as living creatures and not just mindless killer science experiments run amok.

Wait, when did scientists determine that Tyrannosaurus and its ilk were problem solvers?

stellar_coyote wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:35 pm Missed opportunity for Chuck not to end the video with this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh4zvQfDhi0

Who doesn't love some Weird Al?

I 100% expected this

Archanubis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:55 pm Wait, when did scientists determine that Tyrannosaurus and its ilk were problem solvers?

Couple of years ago:
https://www.sciencefocus.com/nature/inside-the-mind-of-a-dinosaur-2/

https://paleontologyworld.com/dinosaurs-%E2%80%93-species-encycolpedia-paleontologists-curiosities/new-research-shows-t-rex-was-smart

https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/book-excerpt-rise-and-fall-dinosaurs

I really wish Muldoon had survived. Also, I wish we had gotten the scene from the books where he starts taking out raptors with a rocket launcher.

I agree with Malcolm on the subject of cloning dinosaurs vs cloning something like condors. I wouldn't necessarily frame it as "nature selected them for the extinction." More accurately: random events selected them for extinction, rather than our own malevolence and/or carelessness. It doesn't matter that we're "more part of the Earth's system" than a space rock. Bad luck is unavoidable, but incompetance is unacceptable.

Grant, yous a jive turkey.

As a paleontology nerd, I must note that the P/T event likely had multiple proximal causes, with the ultimate cause of unprecedentedly massive volcanic eruptions, effects including, yes, acid rain, but more importantly the sudden and catastrophic drop in oxygen content of the atmosphere.

The O2 loss was so drastic that it caused the few species of land vertebrates to survive the event to shrink noticeably and get proportionally larger lungs, and may have contributed to the rise of archosaurs (which likely did better in the environment of the P/T period because their jury-rigged one-way breathing system is somewhat more efficient at respiration than derived therapsids' jury-rigged diaphragm breathing system)

Basically, the entire world damn near suffocated. It was something else!

JL_Stinger wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:55 pmI agree with Malcolm on the subject of cloning dinosaurs vs cloning something like condors. I wouldn't necessarily frame it as "nature selected them for the extinction." More accurately: random events selected them for extinction, rather than our own malevolence and/or carelessness.

You probably didn't intend to frame it as such, but you ascribe an intent to random events. There is none. It just happened and, due to the short amount of time and lack of secondary means (no spaceships, no bunker-building), dinosaurs and many, a great many other species could not adapt to the new living conditions and consequentially died out. There is noone to blame, there is no intend, it just happened.

JL_Stinger wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:55 pmIt doesn't matter that we're "more part of the Earth's system" than a space rock. Bad luck is unavoidable, but incompetance is unacceptable.

What incompetence?

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:53 am

JL_Stinger wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:55 pmI agree with Malcolm on the subject of cloning dinosaurs vs cloning something like condors. I wouldn't necessarily frame it as "nature selected them for the extinction." More accurately: random events selected them for extinction, rather than our own malevolence and/or carelessness.

You probably didn't intend to frame it as such, but you ascribe an intent to random events. There is none. It just happened and, due to the short amount of time and lack of secondary means (no spaceships, no bunker-building), dinosaurs and many, a great many other species could not adapt to the new living conditions and consequentially died out. There is noone to blame, there is no intend, it just happened.

I think the idea is more that they were around and only fit in the ecosystem at the time, whereas now they wouldn't fit.

The idea of chaos theory if I'm not mistaken is that in the order/chaos dynamic, the order fits into the chaos sort of like a glove. Dinosaurs represent a huge distortion in the current mold.

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:50 pmI think the idea is more that they were around and only fit in the ecosystem at the time, whereas now they wouldn't fit.

The idea of chaos theory if I'm not mistaken is that in the order/chaos dynamic, the order fits into the chaos sort of like a glove. Dinosaurs represent a huge distortion in the current mold.

They'd perfectly fit, increasingly so even, if you count in global warming. Don't forget, they'd be an invasive species at this point, as they have literally no natural predators.