Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
Blaming dual fans of one IP for destroying the other IP is misguided. The numbers were good for NuBSG, sure. But then the fact remains the studio chose to double down on the numbers game. They got greedy and that's the real problem here. Real SF, IMO, needs to be struggling to get made, it needs to be low-budget and fan-interactive. TOS was that way, TNG was that way until later on. DS9 was that way, always in danger of cancelation. Most ST series rarely hit past 11 million viewers. SG was that way. B5. I could go on and on. To go for broke just means that you wind up diluting it down and it stops being made for the loyal fans, but trend-chasers. We've seen that in modern ST and DSWC.
Aactually the studio chose to double down on the numbers, because the numbers were that way they were. And no, that’s not “greed”, that’s pure business economics. The most important goal, that each and every company has is what? Indeed, profit maximization. That’s the goal that every profit-oriented company has to fulfull.
And when the ratings say that SGA is doing okay, while NuBSG is doing better than okay, the business-economists say “Well, let’s try to make property a more profitable by means of making it more like property b”
And saying that “real SF needs to be struggling” is like saying “a real artist needs to be sturggling, needs to be a tortured soul, because only tortured souls can craft something really beautiful.”
No, sorry, I’m not agreeing on that. It can be “real sci-fi” and yet not struggling. Looking again at NuBSG: That show
was real Sci-Fi and yet apparently so successfull, that the copyright-holders of SG tried to turn their show into the more successfull model.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
You don't demand respect, you earn it. And demanding proper pronoun use isn't earning it, especially when you're harassing others on social media for it. Does that really matter when you're under fire in a foxhole deep in enemy territory? It's irrelevant! Plus you just have to accept, as I've beaten the point in over and over, these people are a minority and always will be. At least until the tools have caught up with us again.
Oh, quite the contrary. You
can demand respect, without doing something, that is earning respect. Best example: The military.
Try to talk to a drill sergeant in a disrespectful way, negelect to greet him in the proper way, he’ll make your life a living hell. Why? What did he do? He yells and screams at people, who wanted nothing more than defending the country. And yet he’s like a parody of that dude from Full Metal Jackett.
Friend of mine was in the Bundeswehr and the Spieß (the Sarge) was basically something like Drill Instructor Hartman - basically something like an asshole. So - why are we treating these people with respect, instead of waltzing into the head honchos office, saying “Okay, Sir, this dude needs to go. He yells at us, he knocks down lockers in order for us to clean them up again, he checks if our barrack room is in order - Sir, we’re not five years old anymore, we don’t need a mum to check, if we cleaned up our room.”
Again - why are we treating these persons with respect? Not because they
earned it, but because they can turn your life miserable, if you don’t treat them with respect. So basically: They
demand respect without doing anything for it.
And concerning the sequence you pitched: no.
When the goa’uld, Ori, Borg, you name it, attack and you fight for your life, no one, but an extreme idiot, would disobey the order of a person, trying to save their life by - say - misgendering them. It doesn’t matter
in that moment but it matters later on in your life.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
No, I never supported Mr. Trump's trans ban, but trans people need to stop making demands of mainstreamers and deal with this! You join the military to FIGHT. Nothing more. Frankly, trans characters insisting on the proper terminology would feel cringe while lounging in the base during downtime, given the battle lines in America now. If trans people are this sensitive, don't join the military. Call me a transphobe all you want, I don't care. It would be SGU on steroids. Especially if the Twitter hit mobs are out trying to find somebody to cancel for refusing to think the way they do. Whether someone is trans or has a darker skin tone or has this set of genitals or that or likes to bang men or women is meaningless, just trivia, it's the content of their character, and no one remembers that anymore.
You don’t join the military to fight - you join the military, to defend the country. At least, I hope, that’s the reason you join the forces, not because you want to go out there and kill people, who happen to live in that tiny speck of earth, your country wants to have now. ‘cause that would be - say - alarming.
And if trans people want to defend their country, they should be able to join the military, too - and they should be treated with the same respect and their proper (self-assigned) genders.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
What "toxic masculinity" are you referring to? It's a buzzword that means nothing. You're filtering SG through a leftist lens when it was never meant to be that way! This is why SG cannot come back. The West is just too politically charged RN to be able to handle it in an intelligent and thought-provoking way that doesn't have a clear and biased favoritism to a woke left bent to it, with added bad writing. You can't make everyone happy and the studios are digging their own graves in the attempt.
Good question: What does ‘toxic masculinity’ mean? Well, according to wikipedia:
Wikipedia wrote:
Academic usage
In the social sciences, toxic masculinity refers to traditional cultural masculine norms that can be harmful to men, women, and society overall; this concept of toxic masculinity does not condemn men or male attributes, but rather emphasizes the harmful effects of conformity to certain traditional masculine ideal behaviors such as dominance, self-reliance, and competition.[9][10] Toxic masculinity is thus defined by adherence to traditional male gender roles that consequently stigmatize and limit the emotions boys and men may comfortably express while elevating other emotions such as anger.[11] It is marked by economic, political, and social expectations that men seek and achieve dominance (the "alpha male").
In a gender studies context, Raewyn Connell refers to toxic practices that may arise out of what she terms hegemonic masculinity, rather than essential traits.[3] Connell argues that such practices, such as physical violence, may serve to reinforce men's dominance over women in Western societies. She stresses that such practices are a salient feature of hegemonic masculinity, although not always the defining features.[3][12]
Terry Kupers describes toxic masculinity as involving "the need to aggressively compete and dominate others"[13] and as "the constellation of socially regressive male traits that serve to foster domination, the devaluation of women, homophobia and wanton violence".[14][15] According to Kupers, toxic masculinity includes aspects of "hegemonic masculinity" that are socially destructive, "such as misogyny, homophobia, greed, and violent domination". He contrasts these traits with more positive traits such as "pride in [one's] ability to win at sports, to maintain solidarity with a friend, to succeed at work, or to provide for [one's] family".[14] Feminist author John Stoltenberg has argued that all traditional notions of masculinity are toxic and reinforce the oppression of women.[16][17]
So, Sheppard and O’Neill would qualify as toxic male (alpha male), if - and only if - they’d show a behaviour á la “Real men don’t cry” - which Jack even disproved in ‘Show and Tell’. And Jack himself cried, like a lot, Sheppard did so, too, and they’re not belitteling their friends and are not trying to claim Sam/Teyla for themselves. They’re not trying to be the top-dog-alpha-male, to dominate or be violent for the sake of being violent.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
It never started off woke.
That "reproductive organs" line wasn't bad, but Teal'c's race was also never an issue except on the Third Reich Founder planet. I guarantee you nowadays Teal'c would somehow be involved in BLM despite the arson and looting last year. Do we want that? When his race was largely ignored in favor of his deeds and abilities? Carter would possibly be dialed up to 11 in terms of her feministing, hitting military commanders on base with #MeToo.
Do we want Teal’C makeing a stand against racism? Hmmm, let me think about it? Yepp, we want that. Would Carter do a “me too”? Probably not, since the crew of the SGC is not showing any problematic behaviour, that would need to be adressed.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
Now granted, I know the military has its issues with abuse and experimentation and disregard for its shoulders, and a toxic atmosphere, but do we really need to see that?
In the SGC itself? No.
In the military? Well, does it need to be adressed? Then: HELL yes!
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
The Earth-centric episodes were the least convincing.
You found the stories on make-believe-planet more convincing, than the one on planet earth?
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
You know what? The original TOS was optimism for its age. That's what woke was in the '60s. Woke nowadays seems to be trying to depress you and beat you over the head how bleak life is.
Well, woke in the 60s meant to show young POC, that there could be a woman on the bridge, being treated as equally as it would be possible in a hierarchical military power structure.That was all well and good at the time and it encouraged a young Whoopie Goldberg to pursue a carreer in acting, leading to her being Guinan on the Enterprise-D, however now that’s basically nothing. She’s a background character with little to no personality and even Nichelle Nichols knew that. That was the reason, why she wanted to get out of the show, only the interference of Dr. Martin Luther King stopped her, since he saw the bigger picture and saw, that a POC on the bridge would be important.
Yes, it was. It was revolutionary. Back in the day.
Today? Not so much.
Today, the criticism of Nichelle Nichols still stands: Uhura is a background character, more or less the captains switchboard operator, whose only noteable personality-trait except “switchboard operating” is, that she can sing.
Wow! That’s ... I mean, that’s at least something! But besides that? What do we know about her? We never even knew her first name!
So - woke back in the sixties meant “bringing these people to our attention.”
Woke now means: “Show, that they’re people. Show that they have to fight for their place in this society.”
And if that’s depressing you, I’m sorry.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
That's not what I want in SF or entertainment media.
Great, and I don’t want stories, that are not adressing the issues, that need to be adressed.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
I don't want Wokegate when it's just more depression from smug SJWs who completely misunderstand the past and don't believe in a brighter future.
See, that’s where you’re wrong. The SJWs believe in and want a brighter future - which is why they’re telling these stories, e.g. Star Trek Picard with Sir Patrick Stewart wanting to comment on Brexit. They want that this shitshow, a.k.a. ‘toxic masculinity’, Trump, re-emergance of right-wing-ideas, climate change, you name it, is ending. They want a happy life with sunshine and rainbows - but they know, that this sunshine and rainbow future is endangered with the stupidity that is brexit, right-wing-idiots, Trump, so they comment on that via writing.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
What happened to woke being bright and sunny and saying we were gonna be all right?
Well “woke” was never “bright and sunny, holding your hand and saying “everything’s gonna be alright” - that’s not ‘wokes’ topic. “Woke” is to show, that you’re conscious concerning left topcis. That’s why it’s called “woke” - probably from “to wake up”. And you can have optimstic and woke in the same story.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
You can't balance woke to broad humor since that requires being able to laugh at yourself, and would many of you SJWs accept self-deprecating humor? Many I've known just did not like that. Like how Mr. Carlin used the word "fruit" and these days he'd be canceled for such "toxic" language and outright "homophobia."
Oh, you can.
You can laugh at yourself, you can use “self- deprecating humor” - after all, who knows your little quirks better than yourself - and you can put that in your woke story. The Marvel-movies are doing this very well, I think - same goes for Discovery or Picard. They
CAN poke fun at their own expanses and they do that.
Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:52 am
Going topical is hurting these IPs and ruining their rewatch value for short-term gains above. They won't stand the test of time for that reason. The most loyal fans who could have sustained it long-term have been brushed off as right wing or bigots, and have left. That's not smart business. But it is what we have these days.
At least ten years ago, the WDR - the Westdeutscher Rundfunk - one of our many TV- and radiostations aired on new years day three episodes of the old TV-Series “’till death do us part”, completely with german dubbing. And since Germany had it’s own version of that in the Seventies, called “Ein Herz und eine Seele” (one heart and one soul) and it was so successful, that our version of “Alf Garnett” - Alfred Tetzlaff - got the nickname “Ekel-Alfred” (disgusting Alfred) by our presses, the “Ein Herz und eine Seele” was constantly on re-run and so even I watched the complete series. Then I watched the original on said new years day and the only ‘important’ thing, that I noticed, was, that the voice actor, who dubbed Sisko, Tyr Anasazi, Kogoro Mori and Duncan McLeod also dubbed Alf Garnett.
But the topics, they talked about - strikes in England - were so far away from me, since it was a show from the fifties. In “Ein Herz und eine Seele”, it’s not that different, except some of the politicians names were known by me - Kohl, Strauß, Schmidt, Brandt.
So, I concur, that going topical can be difficult - however since Sci-Fi is basically a fable, told in space, as my girlfriends mother loves to say, I have no problem with SF getting topical.