VOY - Natural Law

This forum is for discussing Chuck's videos as they are publicly released. And for bashing Neelix, but that's just repeating what I already said.
User avatar
Frustration
Captain
Posts: 1607
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:16 pm

Re: VOY - Natural Law

Post by Frustration »

People used to think that not forcing their religious beliefs upon 'savages' was inhuman and cruel, condemning their souls and coarsening their lives.

There are excellent reasons we've developed restrictions on our impulses to do good.
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell, 1984
Fianna
Captain
Posts: 683
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:46 pm

Re: VOY - Natural Law

Post by Fianna »

Again and again, the issue comes back to choice.

Abducting children away from their parents and forcing them to abandon their old language and culture: that's a horrible crime against the children, their parents, and their broader community.

But creating a facility that can teach children new ideas and languages, and which their parents can choose to send them to or not? That's just opening a boarding school.

And if your boarding school refuses to admit people from a given cultural background, even going so far as to quash all local reporting about the school so that they won't know even know where to apply ... well, that's just jingoism of a different stripe.

As Chuck points out, while Chakotay calls out the Ledosians for presuming they know what's best for the Ventu, he then proceeds to do the exact same thing, deciding that what's best for them is to put the shield back up and keep them confined to that patch of land, without ever talking to any Ventu about what THEY might want.
Al-1701
Officer
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:51 pm

Re: VOY - Natural Law

Post by Al-1701 »

Frustration wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:38 pm People used to think that not forcing their religious beliefs upon 'savages' was inhuman and cruel, condemning their souls and coarsening their lives.

There are excellent reasons we've developed restrictions on our impulses to do good.
So you would condemn them to the terrarium. How is that the more moral choice?
User avatar
Frustration
Captain
Posts: 1607
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:16 pm

Re: VOY - Natural Law

Post by Frustration »

"Don't meddle with other people's problems" is a very moral choice.
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell, 1984
Al-1701
Officer
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:51 pm

Re: VOY - Natural Law

Post by Al-1701 »

Frustration wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:28 am "Don't meddle with other people's problems" is a very moral choice.
No, it's the easy choice. Turning a blind eye to an injustice (and the terrarium was an injustice) is easy. Helping these people is hard, but worth it.

And I'm talking about the Ledosians as well as the Ventu. Chakotay could have informed them about how meeting with a technologically superior culture caused a great of suffering for his people through war, disease, exploitation, and attempted assimilation. If they and the Ventu are to live without the barrier, it is up to the Ledosians to allow the Ventu to make their own choices on the future of their people. The Ledosians can provide them with the opportunities and information, but they shouldn't compel them.

And getting back to disease. European germs killed more natives than European humans in the early stages of exploring and conquering America. While they removed the people, the Ledosian germs are now in there with the Ventu. Ledosian medicine might mitigate the inevitable outbreaks, but now Ventu are sealed in with germs they have no natural immunity against. Oops.
User avatar
Aotrs Commander
Officer
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:03 pm

Re: VOY - Natural Law

Post by Aotrs Commander »

Frustration wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:28 am "Don't meddle with other people's problems" is a very moral choice.
"Make this not be my problem" is the single biggest Evil humanity has or ever will perpetuate.
User avatar
clearspira
Overlord
Posts: 5596
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:51 pm

Re: VOY - Natural Law

Post by clearspira »

Frustration wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:28 am "Don't meddle with other people's problems" is a very moral choice.
I call that cowardice.
MightyDavidson
Officer
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:22 pm

Re: VOY - Natural Law

Post by MightyDavidson »

clearspira wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:39 pm
Frustration wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:28 am "Don't meddle with other people's problems" is a very moral choice.
I call that cowardice.
As do I. Cowardice made all the worse by the fact that it's being spun as something noble.
User avatar
Frustration
Captain
Posts: 1607
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:16 pm

Re: VOY - Natural Law

Post by Frustration »

clearspira wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:39 pmI call that cowardice.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

That doesn't make the angels, cowards. It takes great restraint and careful training to do nothing. It's perhaps the most difficult thing to do.
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell, 1984
Al-1701
Officer
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:51 pm

Re: VOY - Natural Law

Post by Al-1701 »

No, it's embarrassingly easy to do nothing and come up with excuses for inaction.

This was the same year Sisko made his rant about how detached Earth was to the plight of the colonists in the DMZ with the thesis that it's easy to be a saint in paradise. Well, it's easy to turn a blind eye to the needless suffering of others despite you have the power to save them.
Post Reply