B5: Severed Dreams

[TGLS]

I suppose the variety in governments is because most of the states are named for the race, and it would have little color to see the same name twice.

[Trinary]

I suppose the variety in governments is because most of the states are named for the race, and it would have little color to see the same name twice.

Maybe, but it still makes me tilt my head a bit. I mean, you know how many countries on Earth are formally named "Republic of X"? Quite a few and that doesn't diminish their uniqueness any.

Moreover, most of the time the name of their state is just a name (in B5). We generally don't get an idea about how these societies operate differently for being a federation rather than an alliance, or an empire instead of a republic, etc. So really, it's just having different names for things for the sake of having different names.

This isn't the first time I've seen a sci-fi franchise do this. Are you familiar with Battletech, also called BattleTech, Mechwarrior and "that franchise Robotech/Macross is never going to stop suing?" To sum it up, they go out of their way to give virtually every two-bit power a different sounding name, from Capellan Confederation to Draconis Combine to Illyrian Palatinate. I'm not against creative names that help these entities stick out more, but most of the time we never learn anything about them anyway, so what's even the point? They could've changed the name of the government type and it would've impacted nothing.

[CareerKnight]

Minbari Federation -- This one is a bit of a stretch too. Yeah, it gets mentioned in passing that there are some weaker planets or races who are part of the Minbari Federation and rely on them for protection ... but it's barely even worth mentioning. Why have that be the case at all? We never see them, never hear these races get named. The most I think we get is mentioning that the Stribe once attacked a Minbari-allied world and got beaten up for it; and when some of these Minbari protected worlds are attacked by the Drakh, and Delenn takes the White Star fleet out to investigate. But it could've been some random League world being attacked in both cases, so what's even the point? And even if you really wanted to have other races involved with the Minbari, it's a federation in the same way that Earth is an alliance. There's only one power calling the shots there.

I pretty sure the federation in the name comes from the Minbari themselves being united, worker, warrior, and religious caste. Remember this is the Minbari who, as the stand in for elves, are pretty full of themselves so they don't really need any alliances with outsiders to call themselves a federation.

[T-L]

League of Non-Aligned Worlds -- ... Aligned or non-aligned with WHO exactly? They're aligned with each other (barely) but that really doesn't say anything about this League or its member worlds. There was a non-alignment movement from the 1950s on involving African, Asian and Latin American countries who didn't want to be (totally) aligned with the USA or USSR, but that situation really doesn't exist in B5. It's not a reference to the Vorlons or Shadows since they don't know about how the two races are competing for influence, so the name makes no sense. Plus, they were pretty anti-Shadow and pro-Vorlon before the Vorlons started vaping planets. So the name still doesn't work. They should just change the name to "...and the rest."

Presumably that they are not aligned with any of the regional powers (Earth, Minbari, Centari, Narn), but as you say, the rest is essentially what they are. they are the one's not powerful enough to influence galactic politics on their own and have to band together not to be domineered by the more powerful actors.

[Madner Kami]

Earth Alliance

The Alliance part refers to the alliance of the various governments of Earth. The states as they are today, more or less still exist within the timeframe of B5 and are, technically, independent of each other (see various comments made by Ivanova on Russia), but have allied under the government of the Earth Alliance in matters of space. Think of the Earth Alliance like you'd think of the US government or, maybe more fitting, the European Union. Colonies are held by the Alliance on behalf of every nation of Earth, thus making them technically common ground for all nationalities instead of colonies of singular nations. Obviously the Alliance government supplanted the individual governments more and more, over time.

Centauri Republic

The Centauri have a governing body called "The Centaurum", which does hold some power over what happens in the Republic and is independent of the Emperor. It's implied that the Centaurum is composed of all the noble houses of the Republic in some form or other. Now where exactly the power lies, depends entirely on the persons involved and the comparison to the Roman Empire is actually quite fitting. The Roman Senate kept existing, even after the Roman Republic was transformed into a monarchy in all but name, starting with Augustus. How much power the technically independent Roman Senate actually held, varies with time and the people involved. Sometimes they have nothing to say, sometimes they push the Emperor around as if he was a sock puppet. We see this behaviour replicated in the Centauri Republic, as the Centaurum is name-dropped quite often by Mollari when matters of state are concerned, until Carthagia takes the reign after the clearly benevolent Emperor Turhan dies and, mentioned a few times in the series, straight out murders everyone who opposes him in the Centaurum. And while the title of Emperor might be technically heriditary, it is in the hand of people who were not related in blood or name to Turhan's familary at least three times during the course of the series.

Whether the Centaurum predates the Emperor and is a vestige of an actual Republic or was formed by the noble houses to find a balance to an overbearing emperor in the past of the Centauri, is unclear. Calling them a constitutional monarchy wouldn't be too far off, similar to how Britain functioned before the House of Commons had anything to say.

Minbari Federation

The Minbari are, thanks to their caste system, a group of three sub-species (how far they are still interbreedable is unclear, but it's implied they are still capable of interbreeding). It's implied during various points over the course of the series, that individual planets can and are held more or less exclusively by a singular caste and thus retain a limited degree of freedom to each other. These planets or even just the castes are federated via the Grey Council.

Narn Regime

This actually says a lot about them. Just remember their recent past. They were a conquered and subjugated people who fought a long and bloody guerilla war on their own home planet. They won that war of attrition and of course, they emphasize that they are their own masters now. It's a literal Narn Regime governing them, not the Centauri Republic or a Centauri-appointed puppet, not a Centauri regime, but a NARN regime. Now true, it doesn't say anything about how they are governing themselves, but it doesn't really have to, does it? When you hear the term Germany or France or Russia, you don't get what type of government they have, served on a plate either. We do know, that they have the Kha'Ri though, which is a somewhat democratically appearing body. How exactly the Kha'Ri is put into place, is unclear, but it is mildly implied that some form of election gets individuals into there somehow, though I get the distinct vibe that the Kha'Ri started out as a tribal, clan-based council of elders and might still retain hereditary membership and other similar vestiges.

Vorlon Empire

It's a quite fitting name and says a lot about how the Vorlons see themselves and everyone else, similar to the Narn Regime. They think they are the big fish around and everyone has to dance to their fiddle. They don't mind you minding your own business, as long as your business is what they want you to do and if you don't agree with them, you get strangled by psychic powers or a planet killer makes sure that you change your mind, terminally.

League of Non-Aligned Worlds

They are not alligned to any of the larger powers, but have a loose confederacy going on between them, as a sort of counter-weight to the major powers that they'd be too weak to deal with on an individual basis. That's really all there is. They are in league with each other and are not alligned to a major power.

Those names are fairly fitting, imo. Oh and as for no name appearing twice? Matter of individual pride. We are not you, thus we call ourselves XYZ instead of ZYX. Green. Purple.

[Trinary]

I forgot that point about Earth being an Alliance of nation-states on Earth--though it doesn't change the fact that when it comes to colonies on other worlds, Earth is very much NOT an alliance but an old colonial empire.

As for the Minbari, I don't think that's correct. I think it's established that there ARE other races in the Minbari Federation and that it isn't a reference to the caste system per se. There are "protectorates" in this Federation which are non-Minbari. One is referenced, but never seen, the Norsai. Like with alliance, federation implies a unity of parts which are more or less considered equal. That might be the case if it was about the Minbari castes alone, but the presence of non-Minbari in the federation alters that.

On the Centauri: It's true that the Centaurum exists, but the continuation of the old Roman Senate into the Roman Empire in no way altered the fact that Rome HAD shifted from a Republic to an Empire. It's quite possible that the Centauri went the Roman route, originally being a republic, but later developing the monarchy. The conflict between various Emperors and nobles in the centauruum would support that. But that doesn't change the fact that the Centauri nation, by definition, it is no longer a republic. There are plenty of democratic states with monarchies, or dictatorial republics, but that doesn't alter the fact that one cannot be BOTH a republic and a monarchy at the same time.

Now, to be fair, maybe that's meant to be a reflection of the Centauri, nice sounding guys who just seem to want to party and get drunk, but are actually fairly ruthless bastards when given the chance. If that was intended, then it was rather clever. Doesn't alter the fact that the nomenclature for their state is still inaccurate.

On the League ... that definition still doesn't really hold up. We know the League predated the Dilgar War, which is when Earth came into the picture. The Minbari and Vorlons had closed their borders and wouldn't open them until the Earth-Minbari War and the Babylon project being launched. Maybe you could argue that it's a reference to the Narn-Centauri rivalry, but given the existence of other powers (plus the fact that by the time the series started the Centauri had all but given up and just acceded to whatever the Narn wanted) it feels more like a "...and the rest!" Especially considering how many in the League hate each other.

[CareerKnight]

The Alliance part refers to the alliance of the various governments of Earth. The states as they are today, more or less still exist within the timeframe of B5 and are, technically, independent of each other (see various comments made by Ivanova on Russia), but have allied under the government of the Earth Alliance in matters of space. Think of the Earth Alliance like you'd think of the US government or, maybe more fitting, the European Union. Colonies are held by the Alliance on behalf of every nation of Earth, thus making them technically common ground for all nationalities instead of colonies of singular nations. Obviously the Alliance government supplanted the individual governments more and more, over time.

I don't think there is much independence in how the current nations govern themselves in the Earth Alliances otherwise Clark would have faced a lot more opposition in his restructuring of Earth (also why I don't think EA is just in charge of space matters). I'm guessing the situation is probably very similar to US state and federal relationship, some degree of self governing but ultimately what EA says goes. It wouldn't surprise me if EA started out as something like the UN or EU in terms of space but its clear by the time B5 roles it has grown far beyond that (probably due to encountering other alien races and the Dilgar and Minbari Wars).

As for the Minbari, I don't think that's correct. I think it's established that there ARE other races in the Minbari Federation and that it isn't a reference to the caste system per se. There are "protectorates" in this Federation which are non-Minbari. One is referenced, but never seen, the Norsai. Like with alliance, federation implies a unity of parts which are more or less considered equal. That might be the case if it was about the Minbari castes alone, but the presence of non-Minbari in the federation alters that.

I don't think the existence of other races within their territory is much of a problem, or more accurately I doubt the Minbar would see the issue. I'm guessing the name of the government may even predate taking on these subject species

On the Centauri: It's true that the Centaurum exists, but the continuation of the old Roman Senate into the Roman Empire in no way altered the fact that Rome HAD shifted from a Republic to an Empire. It's quite possible that the Centauri went the Roman route, originally being a republic, but later developing the monarchy. The conflict between various Emperors and nobles in the centauruum would support that. But that doesn't change the fact that the Centauri nation, by definition, it is no longer a republic. There are plenty of democratic states with monarchies, or dictatorial republics, but that doesn't alter the fact that one cannot be BOTH a republic and a monarchy at the same time.

The Centauri strike me as a mix of every period of Rome, from the early elected kings period to the Empire. If this was JMS intention then kudos are in order.

On the League ... that definition still doesn't really hold up. We know the League predated the Dilgar War,

Do we? I was under the impression that the League was originally founded to counter the Dilgar's expansion.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Trinary, I'm gonna come out in support of the names...ESPECIALLY because they seem to be inaccurate. Inaccurate names for governments/states are a great way to give a speculative fiction setting verisimilitude! I mean, look at our history. The Holy Roman Empire was not holy, not roman, and not really an empire. Look at "National Socialist Party" which wasn't very socialist. Look at the Democratic Republic of North Korea.

The United Kingdom is mostly united by hatred for the English, who spent most of history oppressing the other members of the UK and who still keep giving Scotland excuses to secede (especially with this Brexit issue) and smearing the native language of the Welsh while north and south Ireland are busy fighting each other. Heck, look at the United States, with so much anti-federal-government paranoia that we tried to break up over slavery, and even as recent as the 2000s had a Texan governer claim that a military training exercise was a pretext for INVASION by Obama!

Government titles are largley inaccurate and more driven by popular trends and propaganda than truth. Using this in a fictional setting reflects the messiness and irony that you see in real-world politics.

[Trinary]

Trinary, I'm gonna come out in support of the names...ESPECIALLY because they seem to be inaccurate. Inaccurate names for governments/states are a great way to give a speculative fiction setting verisimilitude! I mean, look at our history. The Holy Roman Empire was not holy, not roman, and not really an empire. Look at "National Socialist Party" which wasn't very socialist. Look at the Democratic Republic of North Korea.

The United Kingdom is mostly united by hatred for the English, who spent most of history oppressing the other members of the UK and who still keep giving Scotland excuses to secede (especially with this Brexit issue) and smearing the native language of the Welsh while north and south Ireland are busy fighting each other. Heck, look at the United States, with so much anti-federal-government paranoia that we tried to break up over slavery, and even as recent as the 2000s had a Texan governer claim that a military training exercise was a pretext for INVASION by Obama!

Government titles are largley inaccurate and more driven by popular trends and propaganda than truth. Using this in a fictional setting reflects the messiness and irony that you see in real-world politics.

That's a good point and one I started to recognized (to varying degrees) as I was going down the list. And I think you're right, it likely WAS done intentionally as a subversion of expectations, which is really clever. The names are still pretty misleading, which was my original point.

I guess I was thinking of Battletech, known alternatively as BattleTech, Mechwarrior and "that franchise Robotech won't stop suing." Anyone familiar with that lore of that franchise? There's a handful of major powers and an array of minor ones and they go to ridiculous lengths to keep coming up with different names for government types when, in the final analysis, the powers are either (a) so minor that their type of government is irrelevant or (b) their government is the same as every other factor, i.e. a ruling house that runs the show. The number of factions I could list is pretty long and the types of government names is almost just as long. And aside from sounding kinda interesting, it serves no purpose at all.

[GandALF]

The United Kingdom is mostly united by hatred for the English

That's a VAST oversimplification of the relationship between countries that have interacted with each for over a thousand years. In any case, they're a group of kingdoms united under one monarch starting when the Scottish King James VI inherited the English throne in 1603, so the name is accurate.