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Re: Holodeck ethics and deepfakes
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:43 pm
by Admiral X
clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:30 pm
Fair point, I meant extra terrestrials that actually look like extra terrestrials. I can buy them being similar to us for the simple reason that I believe the human form is one of the best designs that would allow a lifeform to gain true intelligence: opposable thumbs for advanced tool use are an obvious must, a voice box capable of high level speech, a body that is not too small as to be defenceless but not too large as to require vast amounts of food, an omnivorous diet that allows us to adapt to changes in our environment better than a herbivore or carnivore could.
My problem is that they are TOO like us. Two arms, two legs, two eyes, two sexes, a human face. Evolution should not work as exactly as that (and the DNA puzzle idea is not realistic either).
One of the more obvious reasons is naturally budget, but honestly the aspect of it that basically everyone complaining about this is forgetting about is that the actor still needs to act. This is illustrated wonderfully by the STD version of the Klingons, who have a hard time simply speaking clearly. Also, the more crap you put on an actors face, the less expression you are going to be able to get out of them.
Re: Holodeck ethics and deepfakes
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:42 pm
by Yukaphile
Shouldn't this go in another thread? ("How sci-f makes aliens look too human?")
Re: Holodeck ethics and deepfakes
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:23 pm
by Admiral X
Well, this whole thread is in the wrong forum, so what does it matter?
Re: Holodeck ethics and deepfakes
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:37 pm
by clearspira
Admiral X wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:23 pm
Well, this whole thread is in the wrong forum, so what does it matter?
Indeed
Re: Holodeck ethics and deepfakes
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:55 pm
by 9ansean
clearspira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:37 pm
Admiral X wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:23 pm
Well, this whole thread is in the wrong forum, so what does it matter?
Indeed
I honestly wasn't sure where to put this. Since it seemed like a fitting follow-up topic to Chuck's video on Holedeck ethics after Fair Heaven, I figured it could maybe work here. Plus I hardly ever read this stuff on the other forums, so what you gonna do
Re: Holodeck ethics and deepfakes
Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:29 am
by Nealithi
Silly question. Are there moderators to this forum and can threads be moved?
Re: Holodeck ethics and deepfakes
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:59 pm
by Artabax
9ansean wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:55 pm
clearspira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:37 pm
Admiral X wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:23 pm
Well, this whole thread is in the wrong forum, so what does it matter?
Indeed
I honestly wasn't sure where to put this. Since it seemed like a fitting follow-up topic to Chuck's video on Holedeck ethics after Fair Heaven, I figured it could maybe work here. Plus I hardly ever read this stuff on the other forums, so what you gonna do
Exactly and perfectly so. This thread derives from an actual Video Review and therefore it belongs in this Forum.
Does Data have a soul? I don't know. Do I have a soul? I don't know.
Therefore, Data must be a Freeborn Citizen. Likewise, EMH, Moriarty and even Vic Fontaine have souls and deserve Citizenship.
Torturing a toaster harms
nobody at all. Torturing a Person is an abomination.
This message is True. Likewise Lore is a person, a criminal person who deserves to be tried and punished.
Where Trek fails is that it does not give us a clear and easy way to detect Person versus detect Toaster. All Trek can do is spend 7 years showing us Data, Lore, EMH, 7 of 9, Vic etc so we know that these are People and other entities are Toasters.
Re: Holodeck ethics and deepfakes
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:20 pm
by Yukaphile
What if you wanna rape that toaster?
Re: Holodeck ethics and deepfakes
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:27 am
by 9ansean
Artabax wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:59 pm
9ansean wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:55 pm
clearspira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:37 pm
Admiral X wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:23 pm
Well, this whole thread is in the wrong forum, so what does it matter?
Indeed
I honestly wasn't sure where to put this. Since it seemed like a fitting follow-up topic to Chuck's video on Holedeck ethics after Fair Heaven, I figured it could maybe work here. Plus I hardly ever read this stuff on the other forums, so what you gonna do
Exactly and perfectly so. This thread derives from an actual Video Review and therefore it belongs in this Forum.
Does Data have a soul? I don't know. Do I have a soul? I don't know.
Therefore, Data must be a Freeborn Citizen. Likewise, EMH, Moriarty and even Vic Fontaine have souls and deserve Citizenship.
Torturing a toaster harms
nobody at all. Torturing a Person is an abomination.
This message is True. Likewise Lore is a person, a criminal person who deserves to be tried and punished.
Where Trek fails is that it does not give us a clear and easy way to detect Person versus detect Toaster. All Trek can do is spend 7 years showing us Data, Lore, EMH, 7 of 9, Vic etc so we know that these are People and other entities are Toasters.
Which is exactly why I though it might be good to consider whole new ethical questions about characters we know for certain have a life outside the holodeck. Since aside from those who've long since died like Issac Newton or couldn't volunteer there likeness such as the Borg Data fought with in Descent, they would have reasons to concern themselves with who might be using an unauthorized duplication and why. Plus unless we reach a point where some holograms are deemed sentient, these ethical dilemmas are a lot closer to what we're facing here and now.
Re: Holodeck ethics and deepfakes
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:58 am
by clearspira
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:20 pm
What if you wanna rape that toaster?
Reminds me of those feminists who have a problem with interactive sex dolls.