Ent: The Breach

[Sir Will]

I was kinda hoping Phlox's degree would be the subject discussed, as I went through about nine versions trying to make it as both ridiculous yet plausible as possible.

To clarify about the Tribble:
1) Carnivores and Omnivores eat meat. I hope that those who feed it to me end the lives of my food in as humane a way as possible.
2) I first confirmed via several sites that veterinarians recommend against live feeding for a number of reasons, including protecting the pet (live prey fights back) and the cruelty of forcing a terrifying, unnatural end on a creature (being trapped in a cage allows for no means of escape, which most prey animals have as their defense). They say that the number of pets that cannot be trained to accept dead food is virtually nil (things like crickets are pretty much the only exceptions).
3) The tribble is clearly both aware and terrified as it screams several times before death. No attempt is made to mitigate its suffering, either because it is not possible without harming the predator, or because Phlox can't be arsed to do it.
4) If Phlox could do something but instead smiles while the tribble screams in its final moment, that's monstrous.
5) If Phlox can do nothing, smiling doesn't suggest he's exactly torn up about sentencing this creature to its terrifying end.
6) The scene is presented as dark comedy, which it is, but it is the same as when Janeway does something cruelly authoritarian, the show unwittingly confirms the joke as being the reality (that Phlox is someone for whom "ethics" is merely a word for "I don't want to do that").
7) Nice timing in placing this scene at the start of an episode supposedly about how Phlox is not an unethical monster.

I liked the degree joke! And great explanation.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yeah. I feel tempted to question how both advanced and folklore his medical repertoire seems to be. Despite that though, I like how they put an exotic alien witch doctor as Enterprise's first.

[Deledrius]

Yeah. I feel tempted to question how both advanced and folklore his medical repertoire seems to be. Despite that though, I like how they put an exotic alien witch doctor as Enterprise's first.

I think that last part was exactly the point of the character: "space medicine hasn't formalized yet, so it's strange and alien and wacky and rough!" but that's somewhat silly if you think about it, and they never manage to reconcile that "wouldn't it be funny if...?" idea with how actual science and medicine operate, particularly in the future depicted by Enterprise.

[clearspira]

As we are having this conversation about Trek medicine, here's a poser for y'all: why is it that every medicine they use has universal compatibility with every species they encounter? There are drugs in the real world that change their effectiveness between humans, and yet in Star Trek ''20 CC's of Cordrazine'' has the same effect on a human as it does on an alien from the other side of the galaxy. The only time I have ever heard the opposite was laughably enough on one of the worst VOY episodes ''Partuition'' where Paris points out to Neelix that they cannot just go pumping the dinosaur newborn they found with random drugs from their medkit as they have no idea of the effects. This never comes up again as far as I can recall.

IMO Phlox's bugs make no less sense than the universal compatibility of drugs.

[J!!]

Well, if a human with red iron-based blood, and an alien with green copper-based blood can somehow concieve a healthy child together, why the hell would anything else make sense?

[Deledrius]

Well, if a human with red iron-based blood, and an alien with green copper-based blood can somehow concieve a healthy child together, why the hell would anything else make sense?

It's weirdly like in-universe the Aliens are also all just secretly humans with prosthetic appliances on their heads.

[Scififan]

I don't see what the problem is with Phlox feeding that live tribble to something. Some animals need to eat live prey, they won't readily touch non living or sedated creatures. I had a friend who used to keep snakes, for example, and some of them would take dead rats and mice but some just wouldn't. It didn't trigger their prey impulse, so they didn't recognise it as food.

On the spelunking side:
Downside: No Tom "Ibid" Paris.
Upside: No Neelix either.

It's clear that they need to be prey animal because they breed so fast. Just like rabbits.

I actually agree with you in that a Tribble is clearly a prey animal. They exist to be eaten. Am I about to poke the vegan hornets nest by saying that not all animals are created equal? Probably.

[clearspira]

I don't see what the problem is with Phlox feeding that live tribble to something. Some animals need to eat live prey, they won't readily touch non living or sedated creatures. I had a friend who used to keep snakes, for example, and some of them would take dead rats and mice but some just wouldn't. It didn't trigger their prey impulse, so they didn't recognise it as food.

On the spelunking side:
Downside: No Tom "Ibid" Paris.
Upside: No Neelix either.

It's clear that they need to be prey animal because they breed so fast. Just like rabbits.

I actually agree with you in that a Tribble is clearly a prey animal. They exist to be eaten. Am I about to poke the vegan hornets nest by saying that not all animals are created equal? Probably.

...So, um, what did you want to ask me?

[MaxWylde]

I realize this is two years old or so, having to reply on this thread, but I think all of you missed an even bigger problem here, and that's Phlox himself (I won't call this quack a doctor).

What this show demonstrated was that Phlox has a different medical ethical code than what is right and sane. And he was willing to exercise that strange belief in an alien sick bay. That is not his sick bay. That is Archer's sick bay, and more importantly, that's Starfleet's sick bay, and Earth's sick bay. Whatever reservations he has on treating someone who refuses treatment simply because he's a Denobulan (I would've refused to have him treat me because he's a quack) is something that should've been known BEFORE he boarded the Enterprise.

Archer should've ordered Phlox to treat that man, regardless of the patient's wishes. Because, as I said, that is Archer's sick bay, and if anyone dies in there when they could've been saved through reliable treatment that the sick bay could supply, he would lose his command and his career. Fortunately Duchess doesn't have to give that order, but what he then should've done is immediately set course for Earth, maximum warp, get that quack off his ship, and get another doctor, one who abides by the Hippocratic Oath.

[McAvoy]

I realize this is two years old or so, having to reply on this thread, but I think all of you missed an even bigger problem here, and that's Phlox himself (I won't call this quack a doctor).

What this show demonstrated was that Phlox has a different medical ethical code than what is right and sane. And he was willing to exercise that strange belief in an alien sick bay. That is not his sick bay. That is Archer's sick bay, and more importantly, that's Starfleet's sick bay, and Earth's sick bay. Whatever reservations he has on treating someone who refuses treatment simply because he's a Denobulan (I would've refused to have him treat me because he's a quack) is something that should've been known BEFORE he boarded the Enterprise.

Archer should've ordered Phlox to treat that man, regardless of the patient's wishes. Because, as I said, that is Archer's sick bay, and if anyone dies in there when they could've been saved through reliable treatment that the sick bay could supply, he would lose his command and his career. Fortunately Duchess doesn't have to give that order, but what he then should've done is immediately set course for Earth, maximum warp, get that quack off his ship, and get another doctor, one who abides by the Hippocratic Oath.

You bring up a old point that I once saw when the show was still on.

In that Phlox should have his own set of medical rules but still have more to offer to than a normal human doctor.