Sfdebris.net

Maximara wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 9:27 pm I tried to get into Dragonball Z and I found out why so many people call it Drag-on Brawl ZZZZZZ.

Yes, because the anime padded it out a ton to match the production schedule of a weekly manga... when a normal episode of anime can fit two or even three chapters of manga into its run time.

The actual manga moves at a very good clip, and the Kai re-edits that trim most of the filler flow much better as well.

On a side note Dragonbal Z is loosely based on Journey to the West

Not really. The first arc of the original Dragonball was, and VERY loosely, but it abandoned that before even the first arc was done. By chapter 12 it was its own thing, and by 20 it went in a totally different direction. Long before it got to Z it has zero connection to the story outside of some of the characters left over from the first dozen chapters.

maybe Chuck should watch Dragonball Z Abridged. It does a good job of condensing the lore into more manageable chucks.

Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 1:20 pm A bit off topic, but still related... imagine how powerful a Saiyan/Kryptonian would be?

Well, there's an example of Superman destroying solar systems with a sneeze. And in one storyline he hand-made miniature suns to feed a pet. So pretty f'ing powerful.

ran76 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 11:35 pm

Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 1:20 pm A bit off topic, but still related... imagine how powerful a Saiyan/Kryptonian would be?

Well, there's an example of Superman destroying solar systems with a sneeze. And in one storyline he hand-made miniature suns to feed a pet. So pretty f'ing powerful.

That was in the silver age, and there's still debate over whether it was the magic powder or not. The same era, need I remind you, where he was casually moving all the planets in one galaxy to another, shooting out miniature Supermen to battle for him, yet couldn't take on giant kaiju monsters. He was literally was as powerful as the plot needed.

I was talking more specifically to the post-COIE age, where his abilities were more grounded. I mean, a Saiyan's got Zenkai boosts, which is literally adaptation in battle to grow stronger, and the ability to use ki. Plus all the transformations like SSJ, and what have you. While a Kryptonian's got the potential to absorb solar radiation indefinitely, which would give the theoretical resulting hybrid an astonishing healing factor and heightened stamina, as well as the ability to hold their breath in space more long-term than what we've seen in BoG. Mr. Toriyama says they could just barely breathe up there, even when there's probably very few oxygen molecules per meter, so flight through space doesn't count.

Here's a question. A Saiyan with a GL ring, before they lost the infamous weakness to yellow. Would the two cancel one another out, due to the SSJ form? How do you think GL rings would have affected the future war against the androids? Since it is similar to Whis' reality warping, I'd speculate it would have a huge effect. Just lock 17 and 18 into hard-light cages, and throw them at the sun.

That was great. Part of me now wants even more contextless DBZ reviews. Like reviewing Bio-Broly next, because Bio-Broly is a)terrible, b) has a ton of context that Chuck would be missing, and c)would actually become more confusing due to the small amount of context given by History of Trunks.

Really wish thiz would get a redub and have its proper music restored. Unfortunately, Toei doesn't care so much for maintaining consistent quality and everything I heat about dealing with Japanese music rights sound maddening.

Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 12:50 am I was talking more specifically to the post-COIE age, where his abilities were more grounded. I mean, a Saiyan's got Zenkai boosts, which is literally adaptation in battle to grow stronger, and the ability to use ki. Plus all the transformations like SSJ, and what have you. While a Kryptonian's got the potential to absorb solar radiation indefinitely, which would give the theoretical resulting hybrid an astonishing healing factor and heightened stamina, as well as the ability to hold their breath in space more long-term than what we've seen in BoG. Mr. Toriyama says they could just barely breathe up there, even when there's probably very few oxygen molecules per meter, so flight through space doesn't count.

Pre-crisis silver age Superman wins any fight, no question.

Post crisis? That's tougher. If you go with his presentation in *most* media, movies, cartoons, tv shows, most of the comics... he's a good combatant up through the early part of Z. Nappa can blow up cities with a gesture and Vegeta has planet busting laser powers and that starts to get out of Supes' legue, but he could probably go toe to toe with them for a while. But the Superman who fought and died to Doomsday still loses, especially if it comes down to a beam battle... and by the time they get to Namek and Super Saiyan levels and speed of light movement and casually destroying mountain ranges and even planets? Superman loses and bad.

But then you have the Superman who, even post-crisis, is written without limits. That guy can still move planets with help, benchpress the weight of the planet, fly to the sun and back five times in a second, etc... and that is just due to writers no comprehending the insanity of what they just wrote in an effort to sound cool. That guy is magnitudes stronger than a Saiyan.

So that's why its always a silly debate when it comes up. For most people's perception of Superman and his powers? THe guy that struggles to safely lift a plane and has trouble dealing with a random robot or a toyman, gets outclassed by Dragonball quickly. The guy as written to be a god? Just looking at the pure math its not even a contest.

Here's a question. A Saiyan with a GL ring, before they lost the infamous weakness to yellow. Would the two cancel one another out, due to the SSJ form? How do you think GL rings would have affected the future war against the androids? Since it is similar to Whis' reality warping, I'd speculate it would have a huge effect. Just lock 17 and 18 into hard-light cages, and throw them at the sun.

Retcons make it so they were never *actually* weak to yellow, they just thought they were, because there was a fear monster in the generator. Once a GL got the ring that had never even heard of the yellow weakness, he didn't have it.

I'm not talking VS debating. But a hybrid. With powers from both.

RobbyB1982 wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 9:54 pm

Maximara wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 9:27 pm I tried to get into Dragonball Z and I found out why so many people call it Drag-on Brawl ZZZZZZ.

Yes, because the anime padded it out a ton to match the production schedule of a weekly manga... when a normal episode of anime can fit two or even three chapters of manga into its run time.

And yet DBZ is still a slog.

Knowing why something is bad does not make it not bad.
...
I thought the review was great. Chuck''s confusion really captures the essence of DBZ.

Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 9:09 pm I'm not talking VS debating. But a hybrid. With powers from both.

Well here is where things are a little weird. Saiyans are always strong. But not invulnerable. I say this because a small rock tossed by Krillin at Goku he thought Goku would easily detect and deflect even napping. Hit him in the head and he woke a bit angry at the sudden lump on his head.
So most of the power gained is through ki training.

Kryptonians on the other hand are written to be basically human under red sun conditions. But super under a yellow light. (I know of nothing for blue or white conditions.) And some indicate this kicks in around puberty. With them being relatively normal till then.

If we follow the training of young Goku with the depowered till puberty approach on kryptonians. Then you would have a strong fighter who suddenly will jump in power level. More so than Goku did in the same period.
If we go with training as an adult we may see a kryptonian hybrid having to learn which powers come from where. But the raw fighting skill might be the old boxing lessons for Superman. Where the empowered being goes from strong 'thug' to savvy fighter.

But that is just my take.