Sfdebris.net

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:15 pm

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:50 pmI think the idea is more that they were around and only fit in the ecosystem at the time, whereas now they wouldn't fit.

The idea of chaos theory if I'm not mistaken is that in the order/chaos dynamic, the order fits into the chaos sort of like a glove. Dinosaurs represent a huge distortion in the current mold.

They'd perfectly fit, increasingly so even, if you count in global warming. Don't forget, they'd be an invasive species at this point, as they have literally no natural predators.

I'm not sure how invasive they are to an island with nothing but birds, but the movie even did posit that there were a host of incompatibilities between them and the environment.

Anyways might be a good idea for me to query what you mean by counting in global warming.

The global average used to be considerably warmer during their time. You'd expect it to have an influence on their ability to survive that long, at least for some of the dinosaur-species.

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:45 pm

Archanubis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:55 pm Wait, when did scientists determine that Tyrannosaurus and its ilk were problem solvers?

Couple of years ago:
https://www.sciencefocus.com/nature/inside-the-mind-of-a-dinosaur-2/

https://paleontologyworld.com/dinosaurs-%E2%80%93-species-encycolpedia-paleontologists-curiosities/new-research-shows-t-rex-was-smart

https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/book-excerpt-rise-and-fall-dinosaurs

Regarding the whole "problem solving thing," one of the scientists clarified that Tryannosaurus and its ilk were "smart (for reptiles), but not on mammal levels of braininess." So, smart for their family, but probably not that smart.

https://twitter.com/SteveBrusatte/status/1220391171953954816

Archanubis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:32 pm

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:45 pm

Archanubis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:55 pm Wait, when did scientists determine that Tyrannosaurus and its ilk were problem solvers?

Couple of years ago:
https://www.sciencefocus.com/nature/inside-the-mind-of-a-dinosaur-2/

https://paleontologyworld.com/dinosaurs-%E2%80%93-species-encycolpedia-paleontologists-curiosities/new-research-shows-t-rex-was-smart

https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/book-excerpt-rise-and-fall-dinosaurs

Regarding the whole "problem solving thing," one of the scientists clarified that Tryannosaurus and its ilk were "smart (for reptiles), but not on mammal levels of braininess." So, smart for their family, but probably not that smart.

https://twitter.com/SteveBrusatte/status/1220391171953954816

*sigh* It's hard not to feel conspired against when I dig into the sources, verify the data they're saying, and read the report directly from the scientist to ensure this isn't some journalist exaggerating, and that's STILL not enough. Apparently I'm going to have to head to Montana with a fucking pickaxe in the future.

SFDebris wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:54 pm
*sigh* It's hard not to feel conspired against when I dig into the sources, verify the data they're saying, and read the report directly from the scientist to ensure this isn't some journalist exaggerating, and that's STILL not enough. Apparently I'm going to have to head to Montana with a fucking pickaxe in the future.

I don't think we'll ever know 100% for certain what Dinosaurs and the numerous other kinds of extinct animals were like. Their physical appearances, the noises they made, behavioral patterns... It will remain a mystery for us until the time we can create some kind of time travelling probe droid that can go back and observe Dinosaurs unobtrusively.

For example, the Mussaurus (featured in Crichton's Lost World novel) is named so because the initial skeleton they found was quite small, because it was an infant's remains. More recent findings have determined they were much bigger and were more in line with the Gallimimus-like type of Dinosaurs. Crichton can't be blamed for portraying it like that, because that was how scientists assumed that's how big the species could get at the time.

Not sure how smart the T-Rex is when we have a chicken that can play tic tac toe.

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:10 am when we have a chicken that can play tic tac toe.

Citation needed.

RobbyB1982 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:40 pm So, there are two Chucks now. That has to be useful!

I think this actually happened a long time ago and Chuck is only now revealing it! This is why he stopped saying "I'm just A viewer with an opinion." All his reviews have been composed by committee since he was copied and so he is no longer "a viewer" but "viewers".

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:53 am You probably didn't intend to frame it as such, but you ascribe an intent to random events. There is none. It just happened and, due to the short amount of time and lack of secondary means (no spaceships, no bunker-building), dinosaurs and many, a great many other species could not adapt to the new living conditions and consequentially died out. There is noone to blame, there is no intend, it just happened.

The word select does not really imply intent otherwise the phrase Natural Selection would imply intent, which it clearly does not.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:53 am

JL_Stinger wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:55 pmIt doesn't matter that we're "more part of the Earth's system" than a space rock. Bad luck is unavoidable, but incompetance is unacceptable.

What incompetence?

JL_Stinger is talking about recent extinctions like the Condor (which did not go extinct but was very endangered). A quick Google suggests that the Condor numbers were reduced by habitat destruction and also lead poisoning from shot left in prey they scavenged. Assuming people did not intend to kill condors it shows a lack of skill or competence for them to do things like use lead shot that contaminates the environment and kills things they don't want to kill, more competent people would have found ways of doing things that did not unintentionally kill all those other animals. So incompetence killed those animals.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:15 pm They'd perfectly fit, increasingly so even, if you count in global warming. Don't forget, they'd be an invasive species at this point, as they have literally no natural predators.

Keep in mind for every species that becomes invasive there are thousands if not millions that fail to become invasive, indeed invasiveness only occurs because the invasive species somehow outcompete the local species, ie all those local species fail to have what it takes to be invasive. Vulnerability to the wrong parasite, fungus, disease etc. dependence on the wrong plant, animal, microbe, protein or vitamin and so on will prevent a species from being invasive. I see no reason to think a given dinosaur species would have what it takes to be invasive.

I think BridgeConsoleMasher is correct there is more reason to think that a recently extinct species could reestablish a niche given that we probably have indication that things it depends on still exist and that it can avoid or resist relevant existing predators, parasites and disease. Although it depends on what drove the extinction, if it is over hunting by humans and we know we can stop that then I think it might be easy to resurrect a species (given cloning/genetic engineering etc.), if extinction was due to habitat destruction and we know its habitat is still gone it might be impossible and so on.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:25 am

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:10 am when we have a chicken that can play tic tac toe.

Citation needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npQ8sDxcI_c

You do realize, that the chicken is trained to react to a small light, pokes the place, which then highlights the marker? The chicken isn't playing, the machine is.