Sfdebris fallout 3

[Thebestoftherest]

The Legion really forms another good criticism for the Enclave in 3.

The Enclave is ALL ABOUT having better technology, so much so that the Brotherhood (trapped in their own mode of thinking) are worried that the Enclave will kick their teeth in.

And that boxed in thinking is present in Vegas in the Brotherhood who can't figure out why the NCR hasn't won already... and that is odd because they have to understand concepts like belief and valor that allow the Legion to just fight harder and be more brutal than the NCR can really handle.

Don't pretend that the Legion operations out of nobility, they used fear as their first, second, and thrid response.

[Beastro]

Chuck, I hate to be that guy, but unpack the acronym and say "RPG Game" out loud.

An interesting bit about Operation Alert too was that in a full nuclear exchange first responders were useless. They'd just die trying to save others. The conclusion was that if you couldn't get yourself out of a city there was no one else that could save you.

So you single-handedly turning it around as a Good Karma Lone Wanderer actually feels like a huge accomplishment.

I like that idea, but I wish there were more divergence in the plot.
It is the same complaint I have for Skyrim, "why can't I side with the Necromancer Queen's ghost in Wolfskull Cave?" except here it is, "Why can't I throw in with the Enclave early on and just work with them instead of the Brotherhood?"

I wanted there to be more options. I am big on New Vegas, and the idea that the Enclave is just "the Bad Guys" is lame, especially where they are introduced. They needed to establish them earlier.

You expect options like that in a Bethesda game???

Bethesda has a very strict protocol for how they make games: The player is to be a chosen one hero that saves the world and that is all the player can be, because it's awesome and the player should ride high on a sense of awesome fun in every game.

Remember that quest just outside of Goodsprings where the guy says a girl has been kidnapped just up the road and needs your help, only for you to agree go where you's at and realize it's a trap he's set up to kill you for your loot? Bethesda has a mandated rule against such things like that - the player must never be deceived, only catered to.

Frankly, I think they are bufuddled and don't understand why New Vegas was so well received. They don't even seem to understand what Vault Boy stands for.

I think its worth noting that Vault 101 is one of the few Vaults that actually worked. 200 years later and they are still going. There are definitely worse places to be in the Fallout universe.

What is everyone's opinion on the Enclave? Personally, I think trying to make them evil suffers from a failure of writing as they seem to want exactly what the Brotherhood want - especially with Fallout 4 hindsight - and that is to control the Wasteland using the purifier. Even Eden's plan of trying to wipe out ''the impure'' in the Wasteland is not a bad idea. Its morally assholeish obviously, but ''the impure'' in this context refers to monstrous freaks of nature such as Super Mutants that rip out your innards to make gore bags with. Humanity cannot restart if it isn't at the top of the food chain any more.

That was already covered in Fallout 2 (FO3 is effectively The Force Awakens in that an enemy is resurrected to do the same thing over again for no reason at all).

Unfortunately, Fallout 2 was already showing decline in the series in that even it refused you the option to side with the Enclave while you were free to agree and side with The Master in the first. I do I know I was annoyed with that lack of option as the world is broken mass of mutations and I'd have liked to go with the option for the same reason you stated.

Fallout 3 is great, but the main story is basically the repetition of the first Fallout game

No it isn't beyond the fact you leave a Vault to go in search of something. In this case it's your father and you encounter the enclave, in that it's looking for a water chip and you run into the rise of the Master's Army. Beyond that they have very little in common right down to the the things that were brought back, like you say with the Brotherhood.

If you're going to buy a franchise then you'll want to include all the things people liked about it.

Except the core fans of Fallout 3 were new people that had never played the previous two. All that was done was to soullessly distill what they felt the series were about and shove it out sure that the new players wouldn't care and just eat up the chosen one plot and hiking simulation like they'd done with Oblivion.

And Oblivion wasn't the ignored TES game, it was what created modern Bethesda as they introduced all their solid elements of pandering and shallowly reducing everything to something that would appeal to what they felt was the lowest common denominator.

By far the most ham-fisted "evil" faction is Caesars Legion - and it didn't have to be. Any legitimate points they have regarding the NCR and democracy in general are completely overshadowed by the fact they are all a bunch of slavers and rapists.

It also makes no sense a female Courier can join them or that she would wish to tbh. It isnt even implied that she will become a rape slave like every other woman, she just becomes their most trusted soldier and that's that.

That was because the Legion's content got cut due to time constraints. One of the major flaws of NV is because of that, and how well developed the NCR quests are, it pretty much channels everyone into choosing the NCR even above House.

Nevertheless, I don't think NV is a better game than FO3 - rather it's a different game, almost a different genre.

That's because NV is a proper RPG and not the devolved mess that a modern Bethesda game is.

Worse, I've noticed many FNV fans get dogmatic about the 'true' canon from FO/FO2, which annoys me to no end;

The series gets shaky even with FO2. FO2 can arguably be called a series of pop culture jokes strung together. The more serious tone and genuine emphasis on world building ended with FO1. One of the greatest sins of FO2 is that FO3 adopted its silly tone.

Caveat: I never actually finished New Vegas (too many save file-ruining bugs), but I think the reason it gets the praise is because it managed to interject story and character into a Bethesda-style game much better than Bethesda did.

It actually tried to be a Fallout game that continued on with what Van Buren had set up rather than "We bought this IP. Let's see what the iconic things are in it that we can just throw together to make a game around so the player can have mindless fun dicking with like they did with Oblivion".

Don't pretend that the Legion operations out of nobility, they used fear as their first, second, and thrid response.

Except that nobility is Caesar's fig leaf to create the Legion in the first place. It's a nasty means to an end that will fuse with the NCR to create a new more stable society.

That is what makes him a good villain in the spirit of the original game. The original ideas of Fallout seems to include a focus on ideology and people seeking to create utopia. The Master seeks to perfect humanity and his aims are deeply flawed (Super Mutants being Sterile, which makes him commit suicide out of guilt once he realizes his horrors were all for nothing) and the Enclave seeks to restore the Old World and refuses to learn from the mistakes of the past.

FO3 is.... let's do the Enclave again only we'll say all water sources are irradiated and can only be fixed by a structure based in Washington DC.

FO4, I never bothered with and I doubt the plot has much to do in keeping with the original spirit of the games.

[CharlesPhipps]

The Legion really forms another good criticism for the Enclave in 3.

The Enclave is ALL ABOUT having better technology, so much so that the Brotherhood (trapped in their own mode of thinking) are worried that the Enclave will kick their teeth in.

And that boxed in thinking is present in Vegas in the Brotherhood who can't figure out why the NCR hasn't won already... and that is odd because they have to understand concepts like belief and valor that allow the Legion to just fight harder and be more brutal than the NCR can really handle.

Immorten Joe and Caesar are basically the same characters.

Just substitute Valhalla and War Boys for the Cult of Mars as well as Legionaires.

[Rocketboy1313]

Don't pretend that the Legion operations out of nobility, they used fear as their first, second, and thrid response.

I don't think they are Noble.
But I could see the Brotherhood looking at the Legion with their regimented society, their extreme devotion to the cause, and their general diehard nature and thinking, "Wow, these guys are noble in their toughness."

[Riedquat]

Remember that quest just outside of Goodsprings where the guy says a girl has been kidnapped just up the road and needs your help, only for you to agree go where you's at and realize it's a trap he's set up to kill you for your loot? Bethesda has a mandated rule against such things like that - the player must never be deceived, only catered to.

Only it does happen in Bethesda games. At any rate there's a mission in Skyrim where someone feigns being in need to lure you into an ambush.

[CharlesPhipps]

Remember that quest just outside of Goodsprings where the guy says a girl has been kidnapped just up the road and needs your help, only for you to agree go where you's at and realize it's a trap he's set up to kill you for your loot? Bethesda has a mandated rule against such things like that - the player must never be deceived, only catered to.

Only it does happen in Bethesda games. At any rate there's a mission in Skyrim where someone feigns being in need to lure you into an ambush.

Yes, there's also the Lighthouse mission where you accidentally kill dozens of innocent people.

[Beastro]

Don't pretend that the Legion operations out of nobility, they used fear as their first, second, and thrid response.

I don't think they are Noble.
But I could see the Brotherhood looking at the Legion with their regimented society, their extreme devotion to the cause, and their general diehard nature and thinking, "Wow, these guys are noble in their toughness."

Maybe. You have to keep in mind all of that in the Brotherhood is centered around worshiping technology, something the Legion is rather antithetical over. The best might be some grudging respect for a mindset that is, to the Bro-hood, beyond understanding that they care not to give to think about, kind of like a Western solider respecting a Jihadist, but still very much wanting them dead at the end of the day.

[Rocketboy1313]

I don't think they are Noble.
But I could see the Brotherhood looking at the Legion with their regimented society, their extreme devotion to the cause, and their general diehard nature and thinking, "Wow, these guys are noble in their toughness."

Maybe. You have to keep in mind all of that in the Brotherhood is centered around worshiping technology, something the Legion is rather antithetical over. The best might be some grudging respect for a mindset that is, to the Bro-hood, beyond understanding that they care not to give to think about, kind of like a Western solider respecting a Jihadist, but still very much wanting them dead at the end of the day.

My original comment was about how the Brotherhood's boxed in thinking about technology kept them from recognizing how the Legion could be functioning so well against the NCR.
Your comment reinforces my own.

[clearspira]

Don't pretend that the Legion operations out of nobility, they used fear as their first, second, and thrid response.

I don't think they are Noble.
But I could see the Brotherhood looking at the Legion with their regimented society, their extreme devotion to the cause, and their general diehard nature and thinking, "Wow, these guys are noble in their toughness."

Case in point: the Spartans. How many people admire them for their masculinity, their uncompromising attitude, their courage, their heroism? And this isn't just today either, many city-states during the Persian wars looked to Sparta for leadership precisely because they knew of them by reputation.

It doesn't matter that a lot of it was propaganda. It doesn't matter that most of them were just brutes who would rape you, enslave you and/or kill you at the drop of the hat (and unlike many civilizations throughout history, you were at equal chance of being raped whether you were man or woman). There is an ideal there that outsiders look at and admire and willingly ignore the bad parts.

Hell, if we really want to there, the Spartans were closer to being a large tribe of Raiders than any other Fallout faction and that includes the Legion.

[Beastro]

Hell, if we really want to there, the Spartans were closer to being a large tribe of Raiders than any other Fallout faction and that includes the Legion.

Very much beyond the Legion. Spartan treatment of the Helots got into "for the lulz" territory. Even if you try to excuse it as them trying maintain order, others showed easier forms of control over subject populations.

The amusing thing is, contrary to how raiders act in FO, the very nature of their society made them so reluctant to wage aggression against others.