DS9 "The Reckoning"

[CareerKnight]

Stop parroting Chuck's views and think for yourself. It flat-out says on the wiki they wanted Bashir to be somewhat of a jerk in Season 1 so that he could then be "brought down," whatever that means. That's my feeling, they wanted him to grow as a character. And he does.

I'm not, we just happen to be in agreement on this point. I don't care what the wiki says (this is the same wiki that listed Jack Marks as the source for Voyager's information on Native Americans and left out the part that he was a fraud) cause I need more than "We meant to do that". If it was always planned then we would either get a gradual change in Bashir or one or two big events that made him change. We don't see that in the show, instead we get an abrupt change with no in-story explanation. Now if you want to give them the benefit of a doubt then you could assume that they did intend for him to change over time but the negative backlash made them cut their plans short and jump him ahead quite a bit.

But it was nevertheless a harder time for women and the LGBT community compared to the discussions we got going today. That's how I see it. And if you wanna fight me on this, then go ahead. I'll fight you right back.

I'm not arguing that the 90s weren't worse then today in terms of women's and LGBT rights. I'm saying that calling it the "Dark Ages" is dumb and insulting cause it ignores the decade before that, and the one before that, and before that and basically all of human history. Here, I'll bust out a checklist to determine if the 90s were the "Dark Ages" and to keep it simple I will limit it to just women's rights and just stick to America. Could women vote? Could women have a job? Did the earnings of said job belong to her husband? Was a woman who had a child out of marriage a social pariah? Was the worst thing that could happen to a man who beat his wife be that some people would shun him? Was the most likely scenario of a woman reporting that she had been raped that the authorities would put all the blame on her? History is a passion for me and I have read about times when some or all of these were true and accounts of the people unfortunate enough to go through it, so you will forgive me if I get a little annoyed when people pull this stuff. We can acknowledge that a society still has areas where it needs to improve without declaring it the worst thing ever.

I forgot what the original argument and the transcript even was, so... can't even comment on this. Doesn't help that you didn't include it in your quotes for, um... reasons?

The reason was my post was long enough already and I felt that if anyone needed a refresher they could just look at the previous page.

[Yukaphile]

Then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Personally, I love that Bashir is so green when he starts out. It shows how far he advances as a character. To a more wise and learned veteran doctor.

I'd honestly call the dark ages for women the 1930s and 1940s. Truly a dark, barbaric period in our history in which men proved what pigs they really are. And it's shocking we survived the 20th century. Sorry, I do tend to resort to hyperbole when discussing things, but on this, I shall not budge, given how depraved many of those armies were, and that their brutalities against millions of helpless and unarmed women and girls were subtly encouraged and ignored by those in command. Because, after all, a man cannot help himself, no matter how violent he is. The woman must have provoked him, right? Even if she's resisting it. No eventually becomes yes, you just gotta find the angle. A man is built for lust in order to spread his seed, women are built for love and to be attached to just one man. A man just wants a hole to put it in, no matter the cost. God, I'm so glad thinking that like is for the most part, completely dead except as anything other than parody.