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Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:15 pm It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but that makes sense to me. And it would be Star Trek returning to it's really early roots to have "evil Kirk" be a monster from the Id.

Yes. I think what they were going for was "evil" Kirk=Id, "good" Kirk= superego, "whole" Kirk=fully integrated personality.

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:43 pm I don't recall them mentioning that in the episode. About the shuttle, I mean.

It is more a theory that would make some sense.

I am not sure they had established on air that the Enterprise had shuttles at the point that episode orginally aired, so they may have felt no need to explain to the audience why they could not be used.

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:15 am This strikes me as... Gene being Gene. My "perfect humans" will never be afraid! Only their evil halves are terrified!

My vague impression was that Gene Roddenberry's view of the future changed significantly over the years.

I got the impression the original Star Trek was the future will be better, the nations of the Earth will find a way to coexist rather than being annihilated in nuclear war etc. but the future is not so different from the world we have now (up to Kirk dipping little girl's hair in ink wells as a kid meaning not only that children were still mischievous little hellions, but that they still used ink wells?!) and human frailty and foibles are often on display.

By the time the Next Generation rolls around my sense Roddenberry for whatever reason (went to one too many Star Trek conventions?) his views of a better future had become that the people were close to perfect, transformed and doctrinaire. At least this was my sense from the tenor of the two series and comments various people have been made.

I thought the only perfect human we see in the original series was Gary Seven, I think he had the superior attitude down...

Nine pages in and we finally have a Video Review for this thread in Video Reviews.


https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/s005.php

Stopping by to let my thoughts be known.

The barbs on Shatner overacting was quite good, but overall, it felt as if, erm... SF Debris was quite... well, just going through the motions with this review. He put more thought and passion into other stories than this one. But admittedly, with what happened to his kid, I can't blame the poor guy. Again, it's good it wasn't that serious, and he's doing fine.

As you probably all can guess, I am frankly disappointed the misogyny with the episode wasn't addressed. I mean, given what he's said over the years, he had to have agreed that it's gross incompetence to haul the victim before the man accused of attempted rape, and he has called that out before, especially given the ending - I mean, he went off on some weird segue about slash fics? No, come on, that's pure theorizing, Spock/Kirk was never canon, and it's not about "pick your ending among fans," this was a bunch of objectifying men in charge of the network shoving their primitive views into the TV show, at a time when people knew better. And before you give me that whole argument again, I see it as similar to what Odo had said in "Far Beyond the Stars" about how certain publications were for "liberals and intellectuals," given that the establishment was very religious conservative back then and allowed for abuse of power. So no. This wasn't representative of most people's views, even then. Going off on a tangent about Kirk/Spock is just... ugh. I had expected some kind of dressing down to the rampant hatred of women in this episode, and... never came. Especially glaring when you bring up the elephant in the room, in that Whitney, the actress, had been raped herself that drove her off the show as she refused to name her attacker and shielded him from justice (because it was likely probably Roddenberry). I mean, come on, doesn't that warrant SOME kind of discussion? Even a token one? Doesn't feel like the same guy who so viciously tore "Bounty" a new one and rightly so for its deplorable treatment of women, though again that could forgivably be because of the recent tragedy. Still... sigh...

That said, I do appreciate Chuck's headcanon for the broken shuttles. Now it completely explains why they were never used. Totally sticking to this for my own headcanon.

Was also a bit wary that he brought up Freud, given the regressive views that man had on human sexuality that was quite frankly more harmful than helpful to actual psychology and counseling (I mean, the dude hearing stories of child molestation would think it was children "expressing their sexuality," talk about a crude human being!), but then, I also know from other reviews elsewhere Chuck isn't fond of him, so... I guess I'll call this a wipe.

I still can't believe this was the first use of, "He's dead, Jim." Over a flipping dog? OMG. Amazing. Bet most fans don't know that.

In summation, I felt a 7 was way too generous, given that even if were exploring a split Kirk plot, it felt too plodding, and too... noncommittal in what it wanted to say to earn anything more than a 4 from me. When you throw in the misogyny, yeah, I'd say it'd go down to a 3 or 2.

And those are my feelings.

Mickey_Rat15 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:03 am

Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:15 pm It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but that makes sense to me. And it would be Star Trek returning to it's really early roots to have "evil Kirk" be a monster from the Id.

Yes. I think what they were going for was "evil" Kirk=Id, "good" Kirk= superego, "whole" Kirk=fully integrated personality.

The review does touch on that area. I liked the idea because I hear Star Trek was influenced by the movie Forbidden Planet, where the monster was a materialization of the id.

Anyone else think the sponsor's avatar looks like Krieger from Archer?

[...] and showing us that the only who can hold his own acting opposite of William Shatner is, William Shatner[...]

I dunno Chuck. It might just be me but, the late and great, Gary Owens as Space Ghost and Diedrich Bader as Batman would more then hold their own in acting against Shatner.

SabreMau wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:19 am Nine pages in and we finally have a Video Review for this thread in Video Reviews.


https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/s005.php

Shhh... What Chuck and the mods don't notice doesn't need to be pointed out.

So is today's review a reupload then?