Re: DIS - Point of Light
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:04 am
How is Saru racist again?
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His entire character is rooted in his species' "nature". Since species is basically used as an allegory for ethnicity or race in Star Trek, the implication that he's a coward because all Kelpiens are cowards it's just their nature, duh, is insensitive at best and very definitely uncomfortable to watch.
Insensitive towards whom? That seems to be an essential aspect of what makes media characters problematic; they have to actually serve to represent someone.Worffan101 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:14 amHis entire character is rooted in his species' "nature". Since species is basically used as an allegory for ethnicity or race in Star Trek, the implication that he's a coward because all Kelpiens are cowards it's just their nature, duh, is insensitive at best and very definitely uncomfortable to watch.
Okay, I see that you're looking for it being a specific example of being insensitive or insulting to a group of actual real humans, but this isn't the assertion being made.BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:12 am Insensitive towards whom? That seems to be an essential aspect of what makes media characters problematic; they have to actually serve to represent someone.
I appreciate the further deconstruction that signifies that a planet of hats resembles the scientific misnomer of racism.Deledrius wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:35 amOkay, I see that you're looking for it being a specific example of being insensitive or insulting to a group of actual real humans, but this isn't the assertion being made.BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:12 am Insensitive towards whom? That seems to be an essential aspect of what makes media characters problematic; they have to actually serve to represent someone.
It's the concept that there are personality traits (they're all cowards, they're all thieves, they're all aggressive monsters, etc.) inherent to the genetic makeup of a "race" at all which is the underlying cognitive generalization that has historically led to much suffering in the real world, and while subtle, is something that a brand new Trek didn't need to lean on for character motivation.
Giving it a physical manifestation in the form of his ganglia is taking what would otherwise just be a generalization and turns it into a sci-fi version of making the debunked and discredited concept of [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism]"scientific racism"[/url] true. Granted, this is a problem that has existed in Star Trek since the beginning, but it's not a great look. It's why I laugh when I see people calling Star Trek Discovery "woke" or "SJW", because if it is it's by way of parody.
I think the backstory given in Season 2 does some work in undermining this reading, which was a good move; by showing this was all a lie, they move the problems onto the eugenics performed by the Ba'ul antagonists. Unfortunately, it also makes our heroes look like dupes for ever believing in it. :p
Go on?
What Deledrius said. It's a tired racist trope.BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:31 pmI appreciate the further deconstruction that signifies that a planet of hats resembles the scientific misnomer of racism.Deledrius wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:35 amOkay, I see that you're looking for it being a specific example of being insensitive or insulting to a group of actual real humans, but this isn't the assertion being made.BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:12 am Insensitive towards whom? That seems to be an essential aspect of what makes media characters problematic; they have to actually serve to represent someone.
It's the concept that there are personality traits (they're all cowards, they're all thieves, they're all aggressive monsters, etc.) inherent to the genetic makeup of a "race" at all which is the underlying cognitive generalization that has historically led to much suffering in the real world, and while subtle, is something that a brand new Trek didn't need to lean on for character motivation.
Giving it a physical manifestation in the form of his ganglia is taking what would otherwise just be a generalization and turns it into a sci-fi version of making the debunked and discredited concept of [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism]"scientific racism"[/url] true. Granted, this is a problem that has existed in Star Trek since the beginning, but it's not a great look. It's why I laugh when I see people calling Star Trek Discovery "woke" or "SJW", because if it is it's by way of parody.
I think the backstory given in Season 2 does some work in undermining this reading, which was a good move; by showing this was all a lie, they move the problems onto the eugenics performed by the Ba'ul antagonists. Unfortunately, it also makes our heroes look like dupes for ever believing in it. :p
But yeah, looking through the internet so far I have found no distinguished piece on this character being problematic or even associated with the word racist. Did Feminist Frequency Radio bring it up? Their panel would most definitely ground out that issue. This show came out in a time where it's not that easy to get away with a character like that. Is this a new observational progressive development? Because I'm familiar with planet of hats and have yet to hear anything past aesthetically unremarkable in writing.
The bechdel test is a close example of how the such writing can be a nuisance, but that's again essentially an issue of representation and not just general depiction.
Unreasoning horde of alien locusts that invade and assimilate other cultures into their hive mind. If you stretch the analogy it can be interpreted as xenophobic propaganda about the "foreign hordes".
In that case, what I said in response to it...Worffan101 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 3:47 pm What Deledrius said. It's a tired racist trope.
the Ba'ul retcon just makes it even stupider and misunderstands evolution AGAIN.
I'm not sure why that show is being brought up, but if you're saying you want someone to listen to it and report back, I can tell you it won't be me.BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:33 pm Now, here I am just saying; If you take 26 hours of the Feminist Frequency broads reflecting on each episode, if there is a progressively understood problem with Saru, then you would hear their discourse on it resembling a refrigerator going through a metal shredding machine. I would bet that at least once you would find it.