Sfdebris.net

We've all seen his stuff, we know he hasn't reviewed the episode "Elementary, Dear Data," but when he does, do you guys think he will note the odd discrepancy?

http://www.st-minutiae.com/resources/scripts/129.txt

In the actual text for the original outcome, Moriarty could have left the holodeck, but Picard withheld the truth from him since he felt he was created as a villain, so he was worried about what he might do in the real world. Obviously the follow-up to this episode retconned that, and since it never made it into the shooting of the script, I don't think it should be considered canon. However, it is rather interesting to note.

What do you guys think?

Its a sidenote at best. But yeah, early installment weirdness is always interesting to point out and the holodeck definitely got retconned along the way. The Dixon Hill episode in season 1 implied that you would die if someone turned the program off with you in it which has been disproved many times since. Probably because it makes the already lethal holodeck reach comic book levels of dangerous.

At least it's a chance for one of the rarer awards to make a comeback!

Read Memory Alpha's behind-the-scenes notes on "Elementary, Dear Data." Chalk up a rare instance of Gene doing something useful. He put the kibosh on Maurice Hurley having Picard trick Moriarty into staying within the holodeck, because "he's a villain." If that had been the original ending, we never would have got "Ship in a Bottle!" Plus it would give Moriarty legitimate reasons to be pissed off at Picard, that he lied to him, tricked him, and left him to rot, when he didn't have to. So it seems incredibly likely that Chuck will mention it. Hooray! Looking forward to that review!

I wonder if Picard lied to Moriarty about the federation trying to help him. Here's what I'm thinking: so they could upload Moriarty and the countess into that box at the end of the episode to trick them, presumably the box is some type of computer, and it would keep the simulation running. Here's the thing why couldn't they put him in a box like that and put that box in a body like data's. Wire the inputs and out into the box and bam Moriarty can roam the "real world."

Killerbee256 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:13 am I wonder if Picard lied to Moriarty about the federation trying to help him. Here what I'm thinking: so they could upload Moriarty and the countess into that box at the end of the episode to trick them, presumably the box is some type of computer, and it would keep the simulation running. Here's the thing why couldn't they put him in a box like that and put that box in a body like data's. Wire the inputs and out into the box and bam Moriarty can roam the "real world."

Huh. You are a raising a really good point there. That box is literally an electronic brain in a jar. And it is already portable and powerful enough to simulate the sensory input for two electronic brains to such a degree, that it is indistinguishable from reality for those electronic brains. It should be trivial to create a robot body that is both capable of carrying that box and enough sensors to "wire" the box and the brain(s) inside into reality.

Not much to say. The idea of a Moriartybot never occurred to me, and it's a really cool idea.

As far as the original script went, I never saw a problem with the paper taken out of the holodeck and not de-rezzing. In "Encounter at Farpoint" Data noted that a lot of what was in the holodeck was real, created in a manner similar to the transporters / replicators. I figured things the holodeck animated would be of the going-poof variety.

Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:26 am Not much to say. The idea of a Moriartybot never occurred to me, and it's a really cool idea.

As far as the original script went, I never saw a problem with the paper taken out of the holodeck and not de-rezzing. In "Encounter at Farpoint" Data noted that a lot of what was in the holodeck was real, created in a manner similar to the transporters / replicators. I figured things the holodeck animated would be of the going-poof variety.

That is an interesting point. Some things would have to be real, food for example, so there would have to be some sort of replicator/transporter integrated in to the system.

Here's a random thought: Does the holodeck do smells? That would have to be physical, right?
If everything smelled like force-fields it would be a dead giveaway on all those "on the holodeck and didn't know it" stories.

proporRocket wrote: ↑Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:46 am

Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:26 am Not much to say. The idea of a Moriartybot never occurred to me, and it's a really cool idea.

As far as the original script went, I never saw a problem with the paper taken out of the holodeck and not de-rezzing. In "Encounter at Farpoint" Data noted that a lot of what was in the holodeck was real, created in a manner similar to the transporters / replicators. I figured things the holodeck animated would be of the going-poof variety.

That is an interesting point. Some things would have to be real, food for example, so there would have to be some sort of replicator/transporter integrated in to the system.

Here's a random thought: Does the holodeck do smells? That would have to be physical, right?
If everything smelled like force-fields it would be a dead giveaway on all those "on the holodeck and didn't know it" stories.

Hmmm. I imagine it could create the molecules needed to trigger the olfactory receptor neurons to produce an odor (or, in Picard's case, odour). But if a species with a super-human nose would be able to sniff out the truth or not, I couldn't guess. My dog has been drawn to smells several feet away that I doubt I could smell if my nose was on top of it.

My issue wasn't with that paper, I guess it's only how in retrospect, if they had chosen to show Picard lying to Moriarty, then he'd have a real grievance. Even Kirk never lied to Khan. He just forgot about him. I tend to think that Picard would have preferred to help Moriarty originally in "Ship in a Bottle," but the urgency of the disaster and the time constraints meant he had to act quickly - and it's providing him with a safe and happy illusion regardless, so he sees it as a necessary act and one that doesn't work out so bad. I feel like ordinarily Picard would have indeed like to get to know Moriarty better before letting him off the holodeck, in order to test whether this new lifeform would turn out well, and to let it explore this freak nature to its utmost conclusion. A more interesting question is, was the simulation programmed to reflect reality? That is to say, did the Dominion War happen in Moriarty's holo-world? The ending bothered me so badly, Moriarty being forever trapped in a box until he dies and believing it's the real thing, that a headcanon I had is that during the attack on San Francisco by the Breen in the closing days of the Dominion War, that simulator was destroyed - give Moriarty and his lover, possibly wife a quick mercy kill, since by that time the EMH had his mobile emitter, and there was clearly a better alternative. Moriarty's fate just seemed too cruel for me. I'd prefer to die than live in a fake universe.