Is Chuck wrong about Neelix?

[Yukaphile]

Oh boy, I've really stepped in a minefield here, but lemme clarify first. I'm not disputing that he's an annoying shithead. I'm just wondering if Chuck might be wrong in one area - when he was doing the behind-the-scenes stuff for Star Wars, and in "The Gift," he praised Lucas for dialing down Jar Jar's roles in the following movies because of fan reaction. And it's plain as day he doesn't like Jar Jar and thinks he's a racist stereotype himself. Now, as someone who doesn't hate Jar Jar, who didn't find him irritating, and who thinks that he isn't a racist stereotype, well... I can't help feeling sorry for Ahmed Best, you know - the black dude playing Jar Jar who insisted it wasn't about race? He got shafted from a film franchise he loved because of stupid fanboys. He wasn't fired, but he lost the potential to fully explore his role and his craft because of cultural stigma. Now I'm wondering if, rather than toning it down for Neelix, that perhaps Voyager's creators were right to embrace either the "go large or go home approach" to Neelix's character - either stay with it, or fire Ethan Phillips outright and ditch the character altogether. Because Ethan Phillips, as a performer, was treated far better than poor Ahmed Best. His role as Neelix still stayed rather consistent through Voyager. And though it was dialed down in a few episodes, he was a regular presence on the ship. So, what do you guys think? Just a few random ponderings I wanted to share with you.

[Durandal_1707]

That's an excellent question!

The answer is no.

[Worffan101]

The problem isn't what the actor thought, it's audience perception.

Audience perception has largely been that Jar-Jar and Neelix are annoying pieces of shit. That's what matters here.

[FaxModem1]

Neelix can work, occasionally. Acting as Torres's sounding board when she needs to vent was a good role for him. So was, occasionally, being the ambassador. Acting as a sounding board in general for others was the best way he worked, in that he was a bit like Guinan, only not as wise, or as well spoken.

However, there often would be interjections of him being an idiot, annoying people, and just being a pain for everyone else.

It's that these two extremes often collided with each other that make him hard to tolerate as a character.

[Yukaphile]

This isn't about doing what's best for fans, but focusing on the needs of the singular actor. That's the whole point of this debate.

Also, Worffan101, characters hate Wesley even after Season 3, so... clearly fans are idiots. There's a reason the trope Fan Dumb exists.

[nebagram]

Neelix changed a lot for the better during season 5, actually having depth to his character beyond 'odious comic relief' and being occasionally helpful. On purpose! Then 'Prophecy' happened and made you forget that he was ever tolerable.

[Nealithi]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Neelix the character suffers from repeat cliché development. I like to look at him and the Worf effect. Worf is beaten up by the strong alien of the week to show how powerful it is. But he has to show his competence elsewhere so his credibility for that litmus test holds true. Neelix keeps being stated as competent at something. But no not really because then he is not the goofball to make everyone around him look good by comparison. The only real time he was allowed to be good was the episode; The Void. Other wise his written traits ran roughshod over him.
Voyager as a whole has been the low point in Trek for me. And I think Chuck hits the head with this.

[Yukaphile]

I think the Worf Effect is overexaggerated, tbh. As is how awful Wesley is, which is just a holdover from the early days, when TNG sucked.

[Archanubis]

I never really found Neelix all *that* annoying - though I do understand the hate towards the character. I *do*, however, think he overstayed his welcome and think that he should have left prior to the end of the third season, or whenever they reached territory that he wasn't familiar with - and far from home. Hell, the third season could have had a mini-arc with him realizing they were approaching the limits of the region of space he knew about, wondering what, if anything else, he had to offer the crew - and encountering old friends along their journey, which would make him wonder it would be worth never seeing them again if he stays with the crew. You know, what they condensed in "Fair Trade."

[Yukaphile]

Well, him getting people killed? And boasting of skills he doesn't have? That is stuff I find annoying. Again, I'm speaking in terms of the actor, not the character. And contrasting it against Jar Jar and Ahmed Best's treatment.