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I had a feeling Chuck would eventually get around to this infamous 3-parter.

I've not seen it in a very long time but I remember being entertained by these episodes but thinking they were the stupidest thing I'd ever seen on the show. The first part is a good concept, Captain Jack makes a triumphant return to the show and we get to see New-Who try to tackle an extremely far future setting (even further than before), however Russel T Davies didn't seem to have a clue as to how to pull this off and decided to go for a diet post-apocalyptic setting instead, complete with diet rage zombies. If you've not seen this episode I won't spoil exactly what happens or how it turns out so I'll leave any further critical discussion until Chuck has released his review of it.

The next two episodes are centered around the first return of popular villian 'The Master' to the show, portrayed by John Simm who plays the role with manic charisma. I'm not really a fan of this style of the character but at least he isn't trying to be some kind of snake made out of Founder goo or jizzing all over everything this time around. However his evil master plan makes no sense beyond world domination, if he had been trying to resurrect the Timelord race through shady means this time around instead of the next it would have made both him and the story more interesting and complex and given it some actual gravitas. We could even have had The Doctor have to choose between saving the human race or his own earlier in the show.

I look forward to seeing what Chuck thinks of these episodes and how they could have been improved.

I kinda understood what they were going for with the Master, making him more of a evil mirror to Tennant's fast talker...

but in all honesty they should have gone for polar opposite, cause it just ends up with the two trying to out ham each other... or lay a certain... Something on too thick.

Well, I love my ham, so I love this Master. He's basically the Joker of the Whoniverse and I adore it, especially since Simm himself has the time of his life in the part.

Idon't think him trying to resurrect the Time Lords would have worked for me- the Master has always been way too selfish to care too much about that; I mean, he tried to blow up Gallifrey once just so HE could avert his own death. I don't mind him conquering the Earth with plans to expand throughout the universe so while teaming up with a dangerous race too much because, well, that's the kind of thing the Master has always done.

My real problem is more that the Toclafane are just kind of, well, disappointing, not to mention bleakly depressing. I did wonder why in Utopia neither Martha nor the Doctor ever questioned if helping the future humans leave that world in pursuit of a place that might not exist might not be a good idea, other perhaps than Davies being passive-aggressive with religion again, so those humans going totally insane seems less a shocking revelation and more of a "no sh8t, Sherlock!" moment to me.

That, and the finale was just a bit too melodramatic and sappy, but that's been recurring problem with Nu Who.

Overall I enjoyed it though- it's a real shame that Simms' take on the Master basically went downhill from here.

I can’t be remotely harsh on these as a complete story: Professor Yana is just utterly brilliant, i’m a complete sucker for Martha coming into her own, and John Simm’s master is exactly the right level of cheese if cheese is your mood.

You’re completely right about the Troclafane though, they just do not work and add a needlessly bitter coda to Utopia.

Simm was fine as the Master, but almost anybody would be a letdown after teasing someone as good as Derek Jacobi playing the role. My own disappointment is admittedly lessened now that the latter has reprised as the War Master in the Big Finish audios.

Yes I suppose he works as the Doctor Who equivalent of The Joker if you're into that kind of villain, but in this case he comes across like Jared Leto's Joker from Suicide Squad. Just some edgy, manic, violent guy who can pull off diabolical villainous schemes but has no real long term goal or stance other than the satisfaction of his own sadism. This type of character just doesn't work as the big bad for me in most stories.

Yeah the Toclafane are bleak to the point of being silly, just another way for the writers to go 'look how evil this guy is!' They also feel like a waste of time considering he could easily have constructed them using more willing participants from the present time.

This episode made SUCH a big deal that Doctor is in love with Master.

But now that both Doctor and Master are women, we get none of that.

I wonder if that was Russel T Davies idea.

Missy was TOTALLY in love with 12, that’s obvious just based on summaries.
Now what relationship the next master might have with 13, should they meet... who can say.

SlackerinDeNile wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:43 pm Yes I suppose he works as the Doctor Who equivalent of The Joker if you're into that kind of villain, but in this case he comes across like Jared Leto's Joker from Suicide Squad. Just some edgy, manic, violent guy who can pull off diabolical villainous schemes but has no real long term goal or stance other than the satisfaction of his own sadism. This type of character just doesn't work as the big bad for me in most stories.

Yeah the Toclafane are bleak to the point of being silly, just another way for the writers to go 'look how evil this guy is!' They also feel like a waste of time considering he could easily have constructed them using more willing participants from the present time.

I mean, that's really more the Joker in general than Letos' Joker in particular.

Heck Letos' Joker actually DID have a goal other than sadism- getting Harley back.

Simms' Master was more about getting the Doctors' attention.