Sfdebris.net

I love this film. I really do. It’s based off one of my favorite Superman stories and I think the film adds a lot to the story that only improves it. I make this without watching the review by SF Debris, but I believe it will be interesting to watch. It does talk about a lot of interesting themes and thus is up Chuck’s alley.

holy shit! Did not notice this in the schedule. I love all these movies. This one is great.

Has a good distinctive take on the noble superhero theme (with the don't-kill stuff). Looking forward.

Great movie, and a great review.

Props to George Newbern for going into his Sephiroth voice during that scene on the Moon.

Anonymous wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:34 pm Great movie, and a great review.

Props to George Newbern for going into his Sephiroth voice during that scene on the Moon.

Yeah, I was surprised that SF went for the super obscure reference to dog as reincarnated police officer show rather than doing some sort of crosscutting between Superman on the Moon and Sephiroth in Advent Children to represent what the world's most powerful man who will allow no law or morality to hold him back looks like.


Other than that, really good review loved the call back to calling Manchester Black a "soccer hooligan" to mock him once he'd been defeated.

Also nice to see he has one of the same problem with this movie that I do, from what I understand in the comics Superman doesn't depower Manchester and the others after he defeats them, he simply says that he'll be there to fight them, defeat them, and toss them right back into jail every time they try to force humanity to live by their rules... just like with any other supervillain.

In going for a more clear cut and complete ending with little chance of the Elite posing a threat again, the movie ends up leaving an awkward question hanging of "well if Superman is okay with unilaterally depowering supervillains, why didn't he do that to the Atomic Skull, or did Manchester Black actually manage to convince Superman to take steps which he normally wouldn't have before?" which makes the movie's message effective than it could have been.

iwfan53 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:48 pm"well if Superman is okay with unilaterally depowering supervillains, why didn't he do that to the Atomic Skull, or did Manchester Black actually manage to convince Superman to take steps which he normally wouldn't have before?"

nah, there is no contradiction. this was the Elite's rules. he doesn't need to apply the same rules to everyone. Atomic Skull etc remain a problem of society, and you could argue in that moment society asked Superman to be like the Elite and cross every line and afterwards they never asked again, so he did not have to start taking away people's rights.

Rawbeard wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:54 pm nah, there is no contradiction. this was the Elite's rules. he doesn't need to apply the same rules to everyone. Atomic Skull etc remain a problem of society, and you could argue in that moment society asked Superman to be like the Elite and cross every line and afterwards they never asked again, so he did not have to start taking away people's rights.

While that argument is more or less internally consistent, it would have been nice to directly explain that this was Superman's reasoning rather than leaving it up to the viewer to figure out, and it still does mean that the Elite managed to make successfully at least once make Superman shift his moral stance in a way that the movie never addresses.

Basically, I still feel it would have been better for Superman not to have depowered them, after all at that point in the story he's already done more to break their collective spirit than taking away their powers ever will and the depowering doesn't add anything to the story, it only seems to exist to try and tie up the physical conflict in the most complete and total terms as possible at the price of slightly muddying the moral conflict.

Thing about Superman that everyone who argues how he should kill tends to ignore is that that he is supposed to bring hope and inspire people to be better, not be judge, jury and executioner. When you want Superman who kills and rules over humanity you get one from Injustice video games were he brutally murders people over things like not agreeing with him like he did to Shazam who let me remind everyone is actually just a kid in adult body when he transforms.

To talk about the issues of Superman vs the Elite, Superman is not a god. It’s a problem he has faced a lot in comics and even in the real world people have accused his character of being a god. He’s not. He’s not a god who poses as a man. He’s a man. The Elite want Superman to be exactly like him, a killer.

The Authority Are the inspiration for the Elite, and the Authority were monsters. The Authority glorified murdering people, joked about how they toppled nations, and were psychopaths. While one author actually noted this and made it the plot, others treated them as a superhero team. They weren’t. They were a bunch of fascists murdering psychos who would literally butcher entire crowds of people to fight one villain. When Captain Atom went to this world, he was so horrified by how BROKEN it was, he was forced to reboot it... and the world still destroyed itself. Because the world of the Authority had a billion Superman’s... but none of them were the man of tomorrow. The hope of Metropolis.

Superman is a hero not because he can blow up buildings or flies. He can save lives. He does everything he can to save people. He died to save people from Doomsday, while the Authority nor the Elite would do the same. They can’t sacrifice themselves. They are TOO important to do so. Who cares for the little man, when the Elite fights. The Elite fight for themselves. Not the world. Because when the Elite start killing bad people is... who says who’s a bad person? What if the Elite are wrong? What if they kill a famous public figure because he was accused to be a rapist or pedophile, but he was actually innocent? Would the Elite put themselves incarcerations for their crime? Would they? No. They won’t. That’s not a hero.

Selfish people with great power have an identity in comics. Super villains. Sure, the Elite aren’t the Legion of Doom or the secret society. They’re not the justice league or teen titans either. They’re thugs who have a moral superiority. Do you want them to protect you? Because they’re not protecting you. They’re WATCHING you.

Now to Chuck’s review. Loved it. He was critical on what should be, had so many great points, and his progress speech was amazing and legit heartwarming. Glad he reviewed this film and pointed out some great more points in something I already loved. Hope he reviews another great film like this.

Mecha82 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:25 pm Thing about Superman that everyone who argues how he should kill tends to ignore is that that he is supposed to bring hope and inspire people to be better, not be judge, jury and executioner. When you want Superman who kills and rules over humanity you get one from Injustice video games were he brutally murders people over things like not agreeing with him like he did to Shazam who let me remind everyone is actually just a kid in adult body when he transforms.

And here is why no one liked New 52 Superman. Not judge, jury and executioner perhaps, but he sure as F was not inspirational.

Edit: And thinking about it, Henry Cavil too. Inspirational as a teaspoon. Give me Christopher Reeve or Dean Cain any day of the week.

Manchester's powers were mental. Superman just disabled the powers. Atomic Skull is a bit different.