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So when I was first watching Babylon 5 I was really disappointed that Susan Ivanova was not going to be in the Season 5. She was instead replaced by Captain Elizabeth Lockley. I wasn't too crazy about her or Season 5 but a muddled on through and still love B5 as my favorite science fiction series.

However, I have just recently re-watched both River of Souls and Voices in the Dark, both of which focus more on her character than before. I have since come to realize that she is a more deeper and competent character than how I remembered her. She has a different style of command and Tracy Scoggins is a lot better actress then I gave her credit.

So what do you think. I know that River of Souls and Voices in the Dark are not as good as the other movies but her performances are not bad. I think the cons against her are that she is seen as a last minute substitute for Claudia Christian and that her background is initially sparse. She is kind of like an understudy for another actress that had to bow out and try to do what she could with the part.

So what do you think?

I love Captain Lochley. She puts a sympathetic face on an enemy soldier, one just following orders. That's hard to do because people instantly think of the Nazis and default into bad arguments. Perhaps ironically while citing Godwin's Law. You can still follow orders, even bad ones, and find interpretation in there to try and do better. Fight the system within. As Captain Sheridan notes, all it takes is one person saying no.

Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:43 pm I love Captain Lochley. She puts a sympathetic face on an enemy soldier, one just following orders. That's hard to do because people instantly think of the Nazis and default into bad arguments. Perhaps ironically while citing Godwin's Law. You can still follow orders, even bad ones, and find interpretation in there to try and do better. Fight the system within. As Captain Sheridan notes, all it takes is one person saying no.

I'm afraid Terry Pratchett got to me before JMS did:

"History was full of the bones of good men who’d followed bad orders in the hope that they could soften the blow. Oh, yes, there were worse things they could do, but most of them began right where they started following bad orders."

--Jingo

And having also grown up through Thatcherism too, come to that. Don't obey bad orders just because they are orders.

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:27 pm

Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:43 pm I love Captain Lochley. She puts a sympathetic face on an enemy soldier, one just following orders. That's hard to do because people instantly think of the Nazis and default into bad arguments. Perhaps ironically while citing Godwin's Law. You can still follow orders, even bad ones, and find interpretation in there to try and do better. Fight the system within. As Captain Sheridan notes, all it takes is one person saying no.

I'm afraid Terry Pratchett got to me before JMS did:

"History was full of the bones of good men who’d followed bad orders in the hope that they could soften the blow. Oh, yes, there were worse things they could do, but most of them began right where they started following bad orders."

--Jingo

And having also grown up through Thatcherism too, come to that. Don't obey bad orders just because they are orders.

Also very true! There is that inverse. And don't think I'm defending those genocidal lunatics either. I'm just saying, the reality is hardly as simplistic as the moral-touting crowd would have you think, with cartoon supervillains and action heroes. But then I think everyone here already knows that.

EDIT: So sorry for the triple posts! This forum glitched out on me.

To be honest I have never cared about Captain Lockley and I still don't. I guess her arrival after Ivanova left is something that while much older and wiser than back then I still haven't gotten over.

Mecha82 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:03 pm To be honest I have never cared about Captain Lockley and I still don't. I guess her arrival after Ivanova left is something that while much older and wiser than back then I still haven't gotten over.

Would it be the same for you if they had, say, replaced Major/Colonel Kira on DS9 in Season 5/6/7? I think your view is fine, I'm just curious, mind you.

Well if that had happened I could see that being similar. Mind you I was already bigger B5 fan than ST fan and I have never considered myself as Trekkie.

Its her righteous indignation that annoys me, although given how Garibaldi was acting towards her, I guess i can't really blame her.

The fact that she was created to fill the gap left by Ivanova's departure seems to explain a lot. I think they did not want her to be just another Susan but they kind of over compensated. I like her a lot better in some of the other stuff they did like Crusade and River of Souls because she is part of her own story rather than filling in for someone else.

Personally, i like to think she got lucky during the civil war. She was posted somewhere quiet where she was never ordered to compromise her oath or her principles.

Mecha82 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:16 pm Well if that had happened I could see that being similar. Mind you I was already bigger B5 fan than ST fan and I have never considered myself as Trekkie.

Thanks for the clarifying!

I missed Ivanova, but it didn't take away from my appreciation of Lochley. I think she played well off the other characters, though I do have a slight wish that they hadn't made her Sheridan's ex.