Sfdebris.net

https://sfdebris.com/videos/babylon5/b5s2e19.php

I remember quite hating this episode. Not because it's badly made, but just out a visceral reaction to the events. It doesn't surprise me to learn that Talia's departure was due to behind the scenes necessity, but the method is deeply horrifying to me and something about the way it was handled amplified that. It felt sort of mean spirited to the character from the writers to me, though learning that there was an intended way to undo it suggests that's my own reading into it rather than actually there. The stuff between the new personality and Ivanova was just nasty though, and I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense. Wouldn't it be in this agent's interests to try to plant the seeds of sympathy with her, even if it's based on lies, rather than just make absolutely sure the B5 crew hates her guts? I guess there's a danger there of teasing a redemption that would never be, though.

I recall liking Talia more than Lyta in general which probably fed into that, and the abruptness of this turn after her story lines opposing the psi corps up to that point felt pretty bad. This episode was just a punch to the gut without much to soften the blow.

I always wondered what the explanation in the verse was for why they never tried to restore her memory, since correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Kosh a setup for that?

As some one who originally started watching B5 from season 3 I am more familiar with Lyta than Talia so when I finally watched 1st 2 seasons it was my first proper introduction to her. So her departure didn't really effect me. But I can surely see how it was handled badly and I do fully agree with that opinion.

Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:44 pm I always wondered what the explanation in the verse was for why they never tried to restore her memory, since correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Kosh a setup for that?

Well, the Kosh that gave a damn about "lesser races" was dead and then the Vorlon all went Beyond the Rim, so Talia's personality chip may have gone with them or simply gotten lost. Did anyone other than Kosh #1 know about the backup?

Don't get me wrong, if they had decided to bring Lyta back it would have made perfect sense with the setup, but them not doing it makes sense, because no Kosh ever gave a straight sentence, so I don't think Kosh would have left a clear note telling the crew that there was a Lyta backup lying around.

I think they insinuated that Talia had her brain carved up by the Psi Corps because of her growing telekinesis so after a certain point she was never going to come back.

Or maybe that was just me missremembering it.

Percysowner wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:14 am

Captain Crimson wrote: ↑Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:44 pm I always wondered what the explanation in the verse was for why they never tried to restore her memory, since correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Kosh a setup for that?

Well, the Kosh that gave a damn about "lesser races" was dead and then the Vorlon all went Beyond the Rim, so Talia's personality chip may have gone with them or simply gotten lost. Did anyone other than Kosh #1 know about the backup?

Don't get me wrong, if they had decided to bring Lyta back it would have made perfect sense with the setup, but them not doing it makes sense, because no Kosh ever gave a straight sentence, so I don't think Kosh would have left a clear note telling the crew that there was a Lyta backup lying around.

A very good point. And you are thinking of Ulkesh, if you mean Kosh #2?

I often forget about that episode where Kosh and the weird android guy with the hat are screwing with Talia... and he says it's insurance for the future. That would've been how the good Talia was brought back, as the Android had basically copied her personality while Kosh paid her to scan him.

So they knew for some time... god I love Babylon 5.

Eishtmo wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:17 am I think they insinuated that Talia had her brain carved up by the Psi Corps because of her growing telekinesis so after a certain point she was never going to come back.

Or maybe that was just me missremembering it.

Bester hinted at it with, "We learned some interesting things about Ms Winters in the course of her debriefing and dissect—that is, examination." But Bester may have been trying to get the main characters angry to make them easier to read, and has been known to be less than honest on occasion.

I'd assume if Talia had any part left to play it have been in the often alluded to Telepath War

I did a quick google and nothing is mentioned of Talia after her departure, save for a few references. As I remember, she would have essentially have had Lyta's plot points, hadn't her actress not have left. I'd wouldn't have thought the psi-corp would want to potentially destroy a stable and loyal telekinetic, since they're meant to be extremely rare, via a botched vivisection. The guy who makes her telekinetic does mention the assassination possibilities of telekinesis, psi-corp wouldn't want to lose such an asset. It's a shame we'd likely never get the telepath war covered anywhere. Talia vs Lyta would have been interesting.

Was it ever mentioned when the sleeper personality was installed?