Sfdebris.net

https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/e198.php

Guess what made Wikipedia's front page today? Fancy a "Trip" down memory lane?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/These_Are_the_Voyages...

Ok idea, executed poorly. A terrible idea for a series finale. And the death was just... ugh.

I think that could have work as a back door pilot from TNG to enterprise but making the finale. Frankly it means unless Disco tries to, it can't have the wors tstar trek finale.

I appreciated what I think was the intent of the finale -- a farewell to Star Trek on TV, at least for a time -- enough to forgive many sins in the finale itself.

But for people who stuck with the series (I didn't) and wanted a finale to their show, well... Having your series's capstone become just the setting for the journey of a character in a different show could have stung.

It's the kind of mistake, tbh, I could see myself making. But hopefully someone else would have stopped me.

I think what they did for Tucker's character was admirable. I'm not sure how it fits in conjunction with his development up to that point, but it was nice in itself.

Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 6:24 pm I think that could have work as a back door pilot from TNG to enterprise but making the finale. Frankly it means unless Disco tries to, it can't have the wors tstar trek finale.

Evidence so far suggests that DSC is willing to the extra mile there, too. Even discounting DSC's inevitable future bedshitting, TATV is still not the worst Trek finale. TAS had, that abomination that I doubt even DSC will eclipse, and DS9 filled theirs with a load of voodoo and spacebattle masturbation scenes that would have fitted in just fine with Star Wars but is just not a great fit in Trek.

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 2:19 pm

Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 6:24 pm I think that could have work as a back door pilot from TNG to enterprise but making the finale. Frankly it means unless Disco tries to, it can't have the wors tstar trek finale.

Evidence so far suggests that DSC is willing to the extra mile there, too. Even discounting DSC's inevitable future bedshitting, TATV is still not the worst Trek finale. TAS had, that abomination that I doubt even DSC will eclipse, and DS9 filled theirs with a load of voodoo and spacebattle masturbation scenes that would have fitted in just fine with Star Wars but is just not a great fit in Trek.

Oh oh, lets not count TOS out of the running so early my friend. For my money, Turnabout Intruder is one of the worst episodes of Star Trek ever made. Calling it garbage is an insult to garbage. It's Code of Honor levels of shit. Just replace every boring moment of someone standing around doing nothing (that's 80% of Code of Honor) with William Shatner chewing every single bit of scenery he gets near and you might as well be watching the same damn thing. Not that Shatner's acting was the problem. Replace Shatner with Marlon Brando and, well, Brando probably would have thrown the script in your face and walked out he door.

Turnabout Intruder is liquid shit on every possible level.

GreyICE wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 5:41 pm

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 2:19 pm

Thebestoftherest wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 6:24 pm I think that could have work as a back door pilot from TNG to enterprise but making the finale. Frankly it means unless Disco tries to, it can't have the wors tstar trek finale.

Evidence so far suggests that DSC is willing to the extra mile there, too. Even discounting DSC's inevitable future bedshitting, TATV is still not the worst Trek finale. TAS had, that abomination that I doubt even DSC will eclipse, and DS9 filled theirs with a load of voodoo and spacebattle masturbation scenes that would have fitted in just fine with Star Wars but is just not a great fit in Trek.

Oh oh, lets not count TOS out of the running so early my friend. For my money, Turnabout Intruder is one of the worst episodes of Star Trek ever made. Calling it garbage is an insult to garbage. It's Code of Honor levels of shit. Just replace every boring moment of someone standing around doing nothing (that's 80% of Code of Honor) with William Shatner chewing every single bit of scenery he gets near and you might as well be watching the same damn thing. Not that Shatner's acting was the problem. Replace Shatner with Marlon Brando and, well, Brando probably would have thrown the script in your face and walked out he door.

Turnabout Intruder is liquid shit on every possible level.

Still not as bad as TATV, and lightyears better than TAS. And unless DSC takes a few massive leaps in quality, still going to be better than DSC is. I wouldn't claim that TI is good, but it is still better than what we have for ENT and TAS, and still better so far than the entire DSC canon. And at least it doesn't have alien voodoo ghosts as a key plot point, either.

I would argue that TATV is actually not an awful episode in and of itself. The problems mostly revolve around it being the final episode of the series. It's not good, mind you, it's stupid, kinda weird, and out of place, but it's leagues ahead of Code of Honor or Turnabout Intruder as an actual TV episode.

It's more the most hated episode of all time (deservedly so) but it's not really the worst. While my god, you stick Turnabout Intruder in the middle of Season 3 and it'd still stand out. In a season that included Spock's Brain, it'd stand out.

And actually, I'm giving Discovery this, there hasn't been an episode as bad as Turnabout Intruder made yet. Their worst episodes are stupid and bland, but not nearly the crap fest that Turnabout Intruder was.

Turnabout Intruder is kinda campy fun imo. Of course if you take it at all seriously or treat it as a real series finale, it's not good at all.

TATV feels like an admission of failure on the part of Berman and Braga. They knew Enterprise was the least popular Star Trek show, and tried to do a sort of "generalized" Star Trek episode. The problem that should have been obvious is that the move would tick off anyone with real investment in the show whilst having very little to actually impress those who didn't like the show but might tune in (which is kind of a weird target to aim for anyway).

I watched the series well after it aired with a fairly detached point of view on it. From that perspective, it's not a great episode, but on a moment by moment basis I would agree that it's far from the worst Trek episode ever.