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CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:09 pm SG1 shows how the trap of covert operations work. You start out keeping something secret, for good reasons. Or not even actively hiding it, just nobody noticing it, then that becomes the norm and you start spending time ensuring it is the norm, reassuring everyone around you it is the norm, and gradually doing something extra each time exposure threatens.

Eventually you have this whole apparatus built around hiding it, and a fair amount of ego invested in being allowed to hide, and all the time there is this little voice going "people are gonna be real mad when they find out", which of course they will. And this thing you've hid for all the best reasons starts becoming a millstone around your neck that you start fearing disclosing not because people couldn't handle the information, but because you fear they are gonna be so mad at you for hiding it for so long. And it is even worse if the secret is something you inherited from someone else, which is where Stargate ends up with Beau Bridge's general and the President with the chipmunk smile whose names I cannot remember and don't want to look up. This terrible secret war, and they still think they have to keep it secret because they don't want to be the ones people all get mad at.

It is a pretty good depiction of the vicious cycle that state secrets are. That is why they are supposed to time-out and be released into the public domain regularly [every thirty-fifty years] but sometimes the secrets are so bad, and the people who want to keep them secret have so much ego invested in hiding them, that they continue to remain classified. And that is bad for democracy. In the SG1verse, it is even worse than the normal governmental shenanigans too. They should have gone public long before it reached that point. But secrecy begets secrecy, I guess.

Although relying on the X-Filesian need for humans to decry conspiracy theories and not believe in aliens was the dumbest form of opsec they ever did imagine. Jeez.

Edit: As for it being a clip show, well as The Simpsons once said "Sorry for another crappy clipshow".

Ghilz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:39 pm I love Disclosure for the final scene of Thor flexing on Kinsey.

"Supreme Commander."

That said I'm kind of a mixed feeling about the episode itself. It doesn't do a great job establishing that SGC isnt a bunch of fuck ups. And it's kinda telling that ultimately their out is having Thor flex on everyone present. Like 3 of the people present didn't know aliens existed till an hour ago. Of course they'll be cowed when one of them shows up and all but gives Hammond a handjob while flexing his impressive title.

clearspira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:53 pm

Ghilz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:39 pm I love Disclosure for the final scene of Thor flexing on Kinsey.

"Supreme Commander."

That said I'm kind of a mixed feeling about the episode itself. It doesn't do a great job establishing that SGC isnt a bunch of fuck ups. And it's kinda telling that ultimately their out is having Thor flex on everyone present. Like 3 of the people present didn't know aliens existed till an hour ago. Of course they'll be cowed when one of them shows up and all but gives Hammond a handjob while flexing his impressive title.

The problem as I see it is that Kinsey perpetually raises excellent points from the perspective of an outsider. SG-1 constantly makes serious mistakes, their whole operation is a money sink, it WAS convenient that Daniel suddenly started foretelling an invasion just after he threatened to close them down, and they often did not have much to show for the effort as they never seemed to keep any of the technology that they found and their alien allies all had prime directives.

And the writers know this which is why they first made him a religious fundamentalist and then a true villain as opposed to merely being an antagonist. All to discredit the fact that he was wrong only in hindsight.

clearspira wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:46 pm

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:09 pm SG1 shows how the trap of covert operations work. You start out keeping something secret, for good reasons. Or not even actively hiding it, just nobody noticing it, then that becomes the norm and you start spending time ensuring it is the norm, reassuring everyone around you it is the norm, and gradually doing something extra each time exposure threatens.

Eventually you have this whole apparatus built around hiding it, and a fair amount of ego invested in being allowed to hide, and all the time there is this little voice going "people are gonna be real mad when they find out", which of course they will. And this thing you've hid for all the best reasons starts becoming a millstone around your neck that you start fearing disclosing not because people couldn't handle the information, but because you fear they are gonna be so mad at you for hiding it for so long. And it is even worse if the secret is something you inherited from someone else, which is where Stargate ends up with Beau Bridge's general and the President with the chipmunk smile whose names I cannot remember and don't want to look up. This terrible secret war, and they still think they have to keep it secret because they don't want to be the ones people all get mad at.

It is a pretty good depiction of the vicious cycle that state secrets are. That is why they are supposed to time-out and be released into the public domain regularly [every thirty-fifty years] but sometimes the secrets are so bad, and the people who want to keep them secret have so much ego invested in hiding them, that they continue to remain classified. And that is bad for democracy. In the SG1verse, it is even worse than the normal governmental shenanigans too. They should have gone public long before it reached that point. But secrecy begets secrecy, I guess.

Although relying on the X-Filesian need for humans to decry conspiracy theories and not believe in aliens was the dumbest form of opsec they ever did imagine. Jeez.

Edit: As for it being a clip show, well as The Simpsons once said "Sorry for another crappy clipshow".

We live in a society in which its first thought when faced with Covid-19 was to strip stores clean. And people think that we would be ready for the knowledge that aliens that can steal our bodies want to wipe us off the planet. Uh-huh.

Time once again for my favourite Men in Black quote: ''A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it! ''

Ghilz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:34 pm

Yeah. Though this problem will reach its peak during Atlantis, where everyone who points out Atlantis' fuck ups (The Asurans, Michael, Kavanagh, The NID, Woolsey) are all 100% right. Especially when it comes to Weir in particular.

CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:38 pm

Ghilz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:34 pm

Yeah. Though this problem will reach its peak during Atlantis, where everyone who points out Atlantis' fuck ups (The Asurans, Michael, Kavanagh, The NID, Woolsey) are all 100% right. Especially when it comes to Weir in particular.

Now that I can agree with. I don't know if it was intentional, in fact I'd bet it wasn't, but it really came off as a deep critique of the whole post 9/11 paradigm. Whenever they resorted to post 9/11 tactics of abuse, torture, and deception as first resort it always resulted in a fuckup which made things worse. On the rare occasions they tried actual diplomacy or at least gaining informed consent, then it tended to work out better. Which is often how real life works too.