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I'm surprised I couldn't find a thread on this episode, incidentally if there already is please delete this post.

So I agree with Chuck's assessment that Janeway is passing judgement too harshly on Ransom, though in her defense he did something wrong to be sure. But the fact is that this episode had too many forced points for the sake of the plot. Ransom and his crew had to be evil for evil's sake and Janeway had to be a hypocrite because we had to keep her infallible.

Here's a thought, how about either having Ransom break down and admit his wrong doing and that he just thought that if he got whoever he could home it would make up for his failure to protect his ship and crew. Or perhaps Janeway seeing in him a darker reflection of what she herself could have become if things were worse off for them and actually taking pity on him. Give her and her crew a revelation that they've actually managed to do fairly well and things could have been worse, that they themselves aren't saints or invincible. Instead of her reading him the Riot act, how about her taking a moment to think about Ransom's position and then telling him that she understands and she is willing to shelve the issue for a later time but if they are going to survive they need to work together. We can then have Ransom accept that and work with her, perhaps still have the ending with Max staging a mutiny and Ransom having to help Janeway stop him from dooming both ships, ultimately he gets back on his ship and still sacrifices himself to satisfy the aliens and they leave Voyager alone having taken their revenge.

How do you think this episode should have played out?

Tonesthegeek wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:03 pmHow do you think this episode should have played out?

With Janeway sacrificing herself, both to deal with her PTSD and the alien menace, Chakotay becoming the Captain and Ransom either dying along Janeway, becoming Chakotay's XO or just an "elder's voice" for the crew, while not being part of the chain of command.

How about the Equinox crew ACTUALLY joining Voyager, not just vanishing forever. I think having Ransom replace Chakotay as XO for a while and a Torres/Paris/BLT Guy love triangle would have shook up the show nicely.

I think it was an excellent episode by itself.

The Pegasus and Galactica it is not but I don't see the idea of a bunch of Starfleet officials performing human sacrifices to get home to be that unbelievable, especially if they can convince themselves they're animals.

I think it would have been pretty interesting if Janeway hadn't tried to strip the Equinox for parts and had it the start of a mini-fleet. Another ship adds to their combat capability and would allow them to explore different areas from Voyager.

But from a story perspective it could add some interesting flavor to the show. Maybe something like the Pegasus from Neo-BSG where the crew is more loyal to Ransom then Starfleet both because he is a Captain who did whatever to survive and because of their shared shame, can't just go rejoin the rest of the fleet after you raped some robots or killed sapient aliens for fuel.

Re-crewing the Equinox would allow the cast to be split sorta like how they did on Farscape, allow character the room to grow without other characters overshadowing them both in universe and out. Be cool for maybe Harry to be put in charge of the Equinox, the low man on Voyager (or more accurately the bottom bitch) suddenly in command of his own ship. How would he respond to threats with Janeway having him on a tight leash (probably literally and not around his neck)?

And then Ransom would be an interesting character to have longer term. A Captain that is Janeway's equal in every way who is condemned for trying to get his crew home while Janeway and Co had it easy. Even locked up he could still be a threat to Janeway's authority, some of the crew might wonder if Janeway is up to the task of getting them home, if Ransom could do a better job even if he himself has accepted the punishment. Maybe also a possible sounding board for ideas for Janeway, the only person on the ship her real equal and not in her chain of command, someone who understands what its like to deal with hard choices. He can give her advice, some good and some you have to wonder if is poisoned fruit as he has his own agenda.

I do like the evil doctor, but everybody was just too cliché for me. Even the bumper lane with Kim's friend who was just as bad for the most part.

It's like elseworlds where just Flash dies and suddenly the JL is Joseph Stalin.

Honestly, I think that Star Trek fans hate on episodic storytelling a bit too much. Sometimes a two parter is just big enough.

clearspira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:05 pm How about the Equinox crew ACTUALLY joining Voyager, not just vanishing forever. I think having Ransom replace Chakotay as XO for a while and a Torres/Paris/BLT Guy love triangle would have shook up the show nicely.

How about Equinox crew ACTUALLY being different? Janeway immediately assimilated the Maquis. Let Equinox be different.`

Artabax wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:19 pm

clearspira wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:05 pm How about the Equinox crew ACTUALLY joining Voyager, not just vanishing forever. I think having Ransom replace Chakotay as XO for a while and a Torres/Paris/BLT Guy love triangle would have shook up the show nicely.

How about Equinox crew ACTUALLY being different? Janeway immediately assimilated the Maquis. Let Equinox be different.`

I think he was referring to how the Equinox crew joins Voyager at the end, is speeched at by Janeway, then is never ever seen referenced or mentioned again. And yeah, that was BS.

So much like the Maquis, they're allegedly present...

In terms of what I would do differently, I would have had the Equinox tag along with Voyager, but confined Ransom to quarters and put Chakotay in charge of the second ship. Obviously, crews would be smaller and both ships wouldn't be operating at 100%, but it would at least give them an extra gun at the ready for when things looked dicey.

In terms of who was in the wrong...

Janeway was wrong in that she cast judgment on someone who was at his wits' end and under a ridiculous amount of stress. Putting aside the potential bungling of situations where Janeway may have performed better (because, as we all know, not being listed as a series regular means you're probably incompetent, evil, or both), simple fact of the matter is that Ransom's behaviour while still condemn-able, also accounted for what Starfleet may consider "acceptable action." Is it okay for him to commit an entire species to a slow, painful death to serve his needs? No. But, given the desperation of his situation and the fact that, like Voyager, his ship was never equipped to deal with half the stuff they encountered in the Delta Quadrant (The Borg notwithstanding), it was acceptable for him to make the call that he did.

On the other hand, while Ransom made a hard call, I consider this Janeway to be more broken and therefore less able to empathize with a captain in Ransom's position. Heck, give her a half-dozen Borg cubes, her crew being halved, and a ship that is being held together by duct tape and hope, and she'd probably be ready to do as Ransom did. My headcanon is that the episode was meant to display the razor-thin difference between the two if their situations were switched. Janeway was ready to let a man die simply because he refused to tell her what she wanted to know. On the other hand, Ransom himself struggled with the harm he was causing Seven and the weight of his actions, no matter how justified he was in trying to save his crew.

Janeway was never in a desperate enough situation to make the kind of call that Ransom did. She only came close to "understanding" his position because she herself was out for revenge. A desperate man (or woman) will often do things they otherwise wouldn't in order to accomplish the intended goal. Also, late-series Janeway is likely starting to crack, so her willingness to strictly adhere to her principles is probably strained as-is.