DIS - Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 1

[MerelyAFan]

https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/c128.php

At this point I think my default expression with Discovery is just off put confusion.

[J!!]

So, I have a little theory: I think that the original plan for the season was that it would turn out for Pike to have been the Red Angel all along, and I think the decision to change that was probably made at the last minute, because throughout the season, they seemed to be foreshadowing it.

First there was Mike's initial vision of the angel, which morphed into Pike, then there were a number of shots of him that seemed deliberately aranged to give him the appearence of having wings. And then there was his vision of his future.

I think the plan was for Pike to take the suit and travel time for the future of mankind, despite knowing it would lead to him being horribly injured, leaving him as he would be in TOS. But then part way through the season they decided to do a spinoff with him & the Enterprise, and so needed to come up with reasons to have someone else wear the suit.

I have no actual proof of this, but it would explain all the last-minute asspulling right at the end of the season.

[J!!]

Also, while it's been a while since i've seen the show, i seem to recall the resaon they had to blow up the ship being that the sphere data refused to allow itself to be deleted or transfered into another computer. So putting it into the timesuit probably wouldn't have worked either.

[Jonathan101]

"Control will be here in ten minutes"

Everyone: "SPEECH! SPEECH! SPEECH!"

Seems like the sense of urgency is downplayed.

Also, I imagine that the future they arrive at in season 3 will be post-apocalyptic, maybe with Control having slaughtered trillions in the past or something...because, otherwise, they should be able to return home very easily. Time-travel is relatively simple even in the 24th century; Trek has two movies about it for crying out loud. The trouble with the time crystal sounds like the equivalent of needing to buy a new engine for your car.

[Deledrius]

That's one of the biggest problems with both seasons of Discovery so far: they hinge not just an episode but the entire season's arc on one or more giant leaps in anti-logic. You can't just ignore it, because the entire show hinges on it, but if you accept it that means that everyone in the show is a moon-logic clown in a world where drama can't exist because nothing makes sense.

[Taurian Patriot]

I'm sure it doesn't help that each season had significant turnover with both writers and showrunners, on top of having over twenty-odd producers to begin with. It's tough to maintain a coherent plot when everyone in charge treats it like a ridiculously expensive series of "yes, and..." improv exercises.

[clearspira]

So, I have a little theory: I think that the original plan for the season was that it would turn out for Pike to have been the Red Angel all along, and I think the decision to change that was probably made at the last minute, because throughout the season, they seemed to be foreshadowing it.

First there was Mike's initial vision of the angel, which morphed into Pike, then there were a number of shots of him that seemed deliberately aranged to give him the appearence of having wings. And then there was his vision of his future.

I think the plan was for Pike to take the suit and travel time for the future of mankind, despite knowing it would lead to him being horribly injured, leaving him as he would be in TOS. But then part way through the season they decided to do a spinoff with him & the Enterprise, and so needed to come up with reasons to have someone else wear the suit.

I have no actual proof of this, but it would explain all the last-minute asspulling right at the end of the season.

Hopefully the reason they did not go with that plot is that it would be yet another huge retcon.

[Deledrius]

It's tough to maintain a coherent plot when everyone in charge treats it like a ridiculously expensive series of "yes, and..." improv exercises.

From which perspective it's pretty impressive the plot almost flows together in a way that at least resembles a story.

As Chuck points out, though, there are some pretty big lingering problems that result such as the "what ever happened to the Mycelial Network problems?" and the Red Angel signals not lining up or being meaningful except "they happened so now they happen".

You can really feel the shift in both seasons when the writing takes a hard right into a new unrelated plot; while they don't negate the previous story, they do their hardest to hand off the baton and run away with a single element fast enough that a chunk of the audience forgets that they left some major baggage just sitting on the track.

[HumanXeroxMachine]

I can't wait for Chuck's rant on part two. I can feel it coming.

[Deledrius]

I can't wait for Chuck's rant on part two. I can feel it coming.

There's no avoiding it. These season-long stories make sure that you can't critique certain aspects individually because so much of it is "unfinished", but by the time you get to the end of the season either you went along for the ride or you're waiting for all of the dropped plot/character threads to matter. Once it's all over, it's clear they were dropped, and that's a whole lot of back-issue critique all saved up to come out at once.