https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/s048.php
Enjoyable enough, though it I'd say Doomsday Machine is a bit more interesting in terms of compelling character work.
TOS - Immunity Syndrome
Re: TOS - Immunity Syndrome
This episode is an excellent example of the difference between ridiculous concept and ridiculous story.
The planet sized amoeba that needs to be killed because it's a threat to the galaxy or inhabited planets and the crew of a starship trying their best to complete this mission is a ridiculous concept because on a superficial view it is, well, ridiculous. But since the space amoeba is just a plot device, it's the story around said plot device that's the main backbone of the story. If the story is weak, then the ridiculous concept will only make it worse (see Spock's Brain), but if it's good, the ridiculousness of a planet sized amoeba just doesn't matter.
Basically, ridiculous concept + solid story = good.
On the other hand, a ridiculous story, like the previously mentioned Spock's Brain relies on a ridiculous concept (our friend's brain has been stolen, let's get it back) that bleeds into the story: so Spock lost his brain, meaning he should be dead and his eyes should fall off not to mention bleed everywhere, except he's not, because convenient alien, instead we can control it with a controller like he's a toy car, then we find the people who stole his brain, where there's also the convenient quick to learn restore brain procedure, and now without a brain the women that stole his brain must learn to live with the men on that planet... yeah.
Long story short, ridiculous idea + ridiculous story = crap.
And all of this reminds me of a certain Youtuber who made a video where he defended the ridiculousness of the "space orchids" from Picard by saying, well you see, Star Trek had space amoeba and other dumb stuff so this is no different, forgetting the fact that those ridiculous concepts were present in a good story (except Spock's Brain that was terrible from start to finish), while the stupid space flowers were present in a crappy two-parter: the space flowers slowly catch two small ships that were firing at each other and a half-functional Borg Cube (it takes 20 seconds for the freakin' space flowers to catch the ships, which is almost how long each of the previous firefight between Narek and Sirena lasted), drain them of their power, force land said ships on the planet, but then in the next episode said super duper flowers get annihilated by a fleet of ships, and at one point a few of those tiny Romulan ships even fly past them, and the flowers no longer conveniently disable them and only one ship gets slapped, even though in the first scene one flower destroys a couple of warbirds (which forgot they could have moved out of the way since they had plenty of time to see them coming towards them). Ultimately we learn almost nothing about them, they contribute to basically nothing, hell they could have just replaced them with that planetary shield system given how much stuff FX the show recycled (and probably saved some money to avoid the copy-paste fleet) and not change that much.
When you get down to it, the whole core of (good) SciFi is just that: ridiculous concept + good story. I mean, fiction itself relies on ridiculous or sometimes even absurd, otherwise it won't be fiction anymore.
The planet sized amoeba that needs to be killed because it's a threat to the galaxy or inhabited planets and the crew of a starship trying their best to complete this mission is a ridiculous concept because on a superficial view it is, well, ridiculous. But since the space amoeba is just a plot device, it's the story around said plot device that's the main backbone of the story. If the story is weak, then the ridiculous concept will only make it worse (see Spock's Brain), but if it's good, the ridiculousness of a planet sized amoeba just doesn't matter.
Basically, ridiculous concept + solid story = good.
On the other hand, a ridiculous story, like the previously mentioned Spock's Brain relies on a ridiculous concept (our friend's brain has been stolen, let's get it back) that bleeds into the story: so Spock lost his brain, meaning he should be dead and his eyes should fall off not to mention bleed everywhere, except he's not, because convenient alien, instead we can control it with a controller like he's a toy car, then we find the people who stole his brain, where there's also the convenient quick to learn restore brain procedure, and now without a brain the women that stole his brain must learn to live with the men on that planet... yeah.
Long story short, ridiculous idea + ridiculous story = crap.
And all of this reminds me of a certain Youtuber who made a video where he defended the ridiculousness of the "space orchids" from Picard by saying, well you see, Star Trek had space amoeba and other dumb stuff so this is no different, forgetting the fact that those ridiculous concepts were present in a good story (except Spock's Brain that was terrible from start to finish), while the stupid space flowers were present in a crappy two-parter: the space flowers slowly catch two small ships that were firing at each other and a half-functional Borg Cube (it takes 20 seconds for the freakin' space flowers to catch the ships, which is almost how long each of the previous firefight between Narek and Sirena lasted), drain them of their power, force land said ships on the planet, but then in the next episode said super duper flowers get annihilated by a fleet of ships, and at one point a few of those tiny Romulan ships even fly past them, and the flowers no longer conveniently disable them and only one ship gets slapped, even though in the first scene one flower destroys a couple of warbirds (which forgot they could have moved out of the way since they had plenty of time to see them coming towards them). Ultimately we learn almost nothing about them, they contribute to basically nothing, hell they could have just replaced them with that planetary shield system given how much stuff FX the show recycled (and probably saved some money to avoid the copy-paste fleet) and not change that much.
When you get down to it, the whole core of (good) SciFi is just that: ridiculous concept + good story. I mean, fiction itself relies on ridiculous or sometimes even absurd, otherwise it won't be fiction anymore.
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Jonathan101
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Re: TOS - Immunity Syndrome
You know, people give Chris Pine Kirk a lot of flak for being unprofessional and endangering his own crew, but Shatner Kirk just took his entire ship into a black hole thing after it seemingly wiped out an entire star system and a Vulcan ship, and after merely probing it caused them agonising pain.
Why the heck did he send the ship in? All the evidence suggested "imminent death".
Why the heck did he send the ship in? All the evidence suggested "imminent death".
Re: TOS - Immunity Syndrome
Man, how long has Chuck been waiting to bust out that specific Like Unto An Amoeba award?
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Jonathan101
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Re: TOS - Immunity Syndrome
As for the ridiculousness of the concept ... I'll admit, I'm by no means well-versed in exobiology, but to me it seems far more plausible that a planet-sized single-celled organism could exist than that life on alien planets would evolve to look exactly like humans (not counting some pointy ears or bumpy foreheads).
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CrypticMirror
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Re: TOS - Immunity Syndrome
How long have you been letting Steve Shives live rent free in your head, Mabus? I disagree with a lot of Steve's views, especially his libertarian stuff lately[his slide to the political right in an effort to find something to be a divisive ass about is depressing], but he was right about the space orchids.
Anyway, it is episodes like this [and the animated sequel] which show the Galaxy Class full of children and the attempted move to space going arcologies was a smart move, in universe and out, because space in the Trekverse is full of stuff like this and space is where we park all our planets. Planets are much less safe than a starship as a place for raising Trek kids. It is just a shame the imagination wasn't there behind the scenes [or in the wetter part of the fanbase] to develop that.
Also. Space orchids were cool.
Re: TOS - Immunity Syndrome
No he wasn't, just because something is ridiculous doesn't mean anything else ridiculous is acceptable. You won't call the use of Deus Ex Machina a good idea just because it's fiction where anything is possible so clearly you can't rule out the existence of God, since that's not why people dislike that trope.CrypticMirror wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:47 pmHow long have you been letting Steve Shives live rent free in your head, Mabus? I disagree with a lot of Steve's views, especially his libertarian stuff lately[his slide to the political right in an effort to find something to be a divisive ass about is depressing], but he was right about the space orchids.
Anyway, it is episodes like this [and the animated sequel] which show the Galaxy Class full of children and the attempted move to space going arcologies was a smart move, in universe and out, because space in the Trekverse is full of stuff like this and space is where we park all our planets. Planets are much less safe than a starship as a place for raising Trek kids. It is just a shame the imagination wasn't there behind the scenes [or in the wetter part of the fanbase] to develop that.
Also. Space orchids were cool.
But anyway I feel that I derailed a bit too much from the topic.
I never understood that part with the space nothingness around the creature. So it's some protective field of sorts, but then how does it know how to "move in space", does it turn it off and then back on, to "see" where it goes? What does it even eat, since it wasn't apparently interested in eating starships, like other space creatures in TNG and VOY. I don't see how the creature could affect the galaxy by just multiplying, since not only is the interstellar space enormous, unlike the Crystalline Creature from TNG, it doesn't seem to go for planets and mostly killed people by accident.
And it gets a bit silly that this incident doesn't get mentioned in "Where Silence Has Lease", since as soon as they find the "nothingness" there, Data should have found that incident when he was looking for anything else remotely similar. Especially considering what a threat the space amoeba posed, Starfleet should have a list with immediate threats that need to be removed ASAP, with the amoeba on top of the list. I mean, even Worf was mocked for being scared of the "hole in space", so good job for the Starfleet Intelligence.
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RobbyB1982
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RobbyB1982
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Re: TOS - Immunity Syndrome
TNG had an explanation for that. Ancient alien race seeded the galaxy with DNA, which led to things coming out similar.Fianna wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:16 pm As for the ridiculousness of the concept ... I'll admit, I'm by no means well-versed in exobiology, but to me it seems far more plausible that a planet-sized single-celled organism could exist than that life on alien planets would evolve to look exactly like humans (not counting some pointy ears or bumpy foreheads).
Still crazy, but at least *a* explanation beyond "thats what the makeup can afford."
