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Thoughts? Views? Spoilers in my ideas below for the rest of the show.

It's been years since I watched the show properly, but I don't remember Kosh ever really interacting with Londo or G'Kar, and he does say in his own manner that both the Centauri and the Narn are dying races. But here, he interferes, and puts G'Kar on a path of enlightenment. OK, either that's a push for the better, or arguably as bad at G'Kar's telepathic attack on Londo, but it's still curious that he does it.

Does Kosh want both races to bolster themselves and get out of their cycle of vengeance? Or does he have a more sinister motive in mind, such as potentially setting them up to be cannon fodder against the Shadows? Does Kosh purposely ignore them both since he knows that neither of them have the potential to evolve to energy beings like humanity and the Minbari do in a million years? Or is he simply trying to be what the Vorlons are meant to be, guardians of the younger races?

I'd like to see more details on Dust later on the show later also, especially with the Narn's desperate to reintroduce telepathy to their race. OK, G'Kar isn't so obsessed with the idea any more, and the Narn have more important things to worry about (being under occupation after all), but it would have been interesting to see them having some success.

DanteC wrote:It's been years since I watched the show properly, but I don't remember Kosh ever really interacting with Londo or G'Kar, and he does say in his own manner that both the Centauri and the Narn are dying races. But here, he interferes, and puts G'Kar on a path of enlightenment. OK, either that's a push for the better, or arguably as bad at G'Kar's telepathic attack on Londo, but it's still curious that he does it.

It's an interesting ends/means debate. The results are unquestionably for the better, but the means—manipulating G'Kar like that—are really questionable.

Does Kosh want both races to bolster themselves and get out of their cycle of vengeance? Or does he have a more sinister motive in mind, such as potentially setting them up to be cannon fodder against the Shadows? Does Kosh purposely ignore them both since he knows that neither of them have the potential to evolve to energy beings like humanity and the Minbari do in a million years? Or is he simply trying to be what the Vorlons are meant to be, guardians of the younger races?

I think he's just trying to do the Vorlon "balance" thing. The Centauri have fallen in with the Shadows, so he's trying to get the Narn on the side of the Vorlons to counter that.

DanteC wrote:Does Kosh want both races to bolster themselves and get out of their cycle of vengeance? Or does he have a more sinister motive in mind, such as potentially setting them up to be cannon fodder against the Shadows? Does Kosh purposely ignore them both since he knows that neither of them have the potential to evolve to energy beings like humanity and the Minbari do in a million years? Or is he simply trying to be what the Vorlons are meant to be, guardians of the younger races?

I think it is most likely he did it for altruistic reasons. Kosh seems more sympathetic towards the younger races than most of his species based on what we see later. It would fit in with his overall character that he would go beyond his duties to make things better a little like this, and it all happening in G'Kar's headspace allows to do so without exposing himself. And hey, if Centauri and Narn are considered beneath notice for Vorlons then it doesn't matter a whole lot if you do improve their conditions, as long as you do it discreetly.

Kosh at least actually liked the younger races and wanted them to do better and to help them. The other vorlons, not so much.

But much like his interest in Sheriden and Delenn.... he didn't know for certain they'd be THE ones he needed, but they were important people at an important place and he could try here and there to push them in the right direction. Even before he went all in with Sheriden he was sending him messages and guiding him... I don't see why it couldn't be the same for G'kar... even as a pet project... even if the Narn in general weren't going to be saved.

Kosh was actually about the little things, as much as the big. He saw G'kar at council meeting and what the Centauri had done to him, and maybe suspected, hoped, that a proper push at the proper time could lead to better things. And it did.

DanteC wrote: It's been years since I watched the show properly, but I don't remember Kosh ever really interacting with Londo or G'Kar, and he does say in his own manner that both the Centauri and the Narn are dying races. But here, he interferes, and puts G'Kar on a path of enlightenment. OK, either that's a push for the better, or arguably as bad at G'Kar's telepathic attack on Londo, but it's still curious that he does it.

Does Kosh want both races to bolster themselves and get out of their cycle of vengeance? Or does he have a more sinister motive in mind, such as potentially setting them up to be cannon fodder against the Shadows? Does Kosh purposely ignore them both since he knows that neither of them have the potential to evolve to energy beings like humanity and the Minbari do in a million years? Or is he simply trying to be what the Vorlons are meant to be, guardians of the younger races?

Lyta says that this Kosh actually cares about the younger races, unlike (presumably) most of the other Vorlons who just see the conflict as being about who is right. G'Kar would never listen to Kosh normally, so G'Kar taking the Dust finally allows Kosh a means of communication that can actually get through to the Narn; the Centauri are probably considered too far gone to the Shadow's side to even be worth interfering on their behalf. Besides, the Rules of Engagement probably also means that Londo is personally hands-off for the Vorlons (at least directly) as he chose to jump headlong into the Shadow camp.

Why would Kosh care about this one person when it's unlikely G'Kar will be able to change anything on a grand scale? Especially since there might've been a high likelihood of extreme mental damage or even death to one of the prime Shadow pawns in Londo? Two reasons:

First, remember what Sebastian said about knowing who the chosen ones are. Someone who will risk themselves for another for no other reason than it is the right thing to do. Yes, touching G'Kar in this way probably won't affect the coming of the Shadows in any realistic way and even interfering like that was probably dangerous if there had been any Shadow agents around and by doing so he potentially squanders a chance to smack the Shadows upside the head with G'Kar rendering Londo a vegetable or killing him. But it is still the right thing to do.

Secondly, as G'Kar himself said to Sakai after saving her life... why not?

I'd like to see more details on Dust later on the show later also, especially with the Narn's desperate to reintroduce telepathy to their race. OK, G'Kar isn't so obsessed with the idea any more, and the Narn have more important things to worry about (being under occupation after all), but it would have been interesting to see them having some success.

One question about Dust that I don't believe is ever answered is if someone under Dust influence also experiences the emotions of their victim. It'd be interesting to know if G'Kar felt the quiet horror of Londo Mollari as he watched the Narn homeworld be bombed to dust, or the existential dread that came from the nonchalance by which Morden agreed to destroy a Narn outpost and seemed to have no compassion about the deed at all. Too blinded at the time by furious outrage, if G'Kar reflected on what he saw in prison, did that help him to grudgingly begin to see Londo as more than just the architect of the Narn Regime's ruination? Not just some great enemy to be hated and defeated, but a profoundly desperate man in way, way over his head?

Given that G'Kar eventually did forgive Londo, I suspect the answer to your question is "yes."

I am not sure forgive is the right term, more akin to acceptance of londo's role in things.

A weird tidbit that I somehow remember from back when this episode first aired. The actress who plays Bester's Partner in that last scene. The redhead is If I remember correctly Walter Koenig's wife making a cameo and sharing a scene with him.

It's great to see Chuck finally getting deeper into the meat of B5. I so look forward to the B5 reviews only to see each and inwardly curse "Another First Season Episode!?!?!"

griffeytrek wrote:France is coming up and it looks interesting. The pollsters and talking heads are going nuts because with the 4 way split they don't know which way it is turning. But there is one data point that I find interesting and likely predictive. Over 30% of those polled remain "undecided but will likely vote". That makes me suspicious. We saw that same behavior in the UK with Brexit and in the US with Trump. Those polled are not actually undecided. They are simply unwilling to tell what they believe to be a hostile or partisan press pollster who they are really planning to vote for. Which makes me think LePen will do better than predicted. But questionable as to whether it is enough to avoid a runoff.

Something tells me this isn't supposed to be here.

Imagine what things would be like if the spammers got ahold of the Dust telepathic drug.

::shudders::