Deep Space Nine: Favor the Bold

[BunBun299]

http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d529.php

So, I was rewatching the review for this episode, and got to the part where Chuck talks about the mines. I had a couple of thoughts on that.

First off, as far as the raw matter for the replicating of new mines. Replicators and transporters are basically the same technology. So they could collect raw matter with their transporters from exploded mines. Essentially recycling their destroyed brothers into brand new mines.

Secondly, this would still require raw energy. And there is one potential source of this near by that could explain not only where they get the energy, but why the Federation doesn't use these everywhere they wish to defend. The Wormhole. The mines could very well be designed to collect raw energy bled off from the wormhole, especially since their was that episode I believe in season 3 where a comet passing through it wedged it open, just a little bit, enabling communication through it from the Gamma Quadrant. Since it was wedged open, just a tad from that, energy is probably coming out constantly. And that would recharge the mines.

Anywhere else they wanted to protect with cloaked, self replicating mines would likely require a comparable natural power source, and there probably aren't too many out there.

[excalibur]

I am wondering since we've seen the series have technobabble tech that can disable technology like an EMP, why wasn't that an option to stop the mines? Since the mines are only programed to replicate in the event if a fellow mine is destroyed, would disabling them via emp count as "destruction" in their program and automatically replicate.

Also, how many mines is too many for the Dominion fleet to not risk sending dozens if not hundreds of their own ships on a suicide run to detonate the mines? Whose to say the Dominion isn't wasteful enough to just send huge warships, absorb the mines and allow smaller faster ships to fly pass?

[nebagram]

Also, how many mines is too many for the Dominion fleet to not risk sending dozens if not hundreds of their own ships on a suicide run to detonate the mines? Whose to say the Dominion isn't wasteful enough to just send huge warships, absorb the mines and allow smaller faster ships to fly pass?

I was always under the impression that the Dominion had already tried this and deemed the plan unfeasible. They had 2800 ships on the other side of the wormhole, and whilst they could spare a few, they probably wouldn't want to waste hundreds, especially as the minefield could theoretically completely reform itself from just a handful of surviving mines.

Edit- and as we saw in Call to Arms, there were a serious number of mines in the field, several layers deep.

[Durandal_1707]

http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/d529.php

So, I was rewatching the review for this episode, and got to the part where Chuck talks about the mines. I had a couple of thoughts on that.

First off, as far as the raw matter for the replicating of new mines. Replicators and transporters are basically the same technology. So they could collect raw matter with their transporters from exploded mines. Essentially recycling their destroyed brothers into brand new mines.

Secondly, this would still require raw energy. And there is one potential source of this near by that could explain not only where they get the energy, but why the Federation doesn't use these everywhere they wish to defend. The Wormhole. The mines could very well be designed to collect raw energy bled off from the wormhole, especially since their was that episode I believe in season 3 where a comet passing through it wedged it open, just a little bit, enabling communication through it from the Gamma Quadrant. Since it was wedged open, just a tad from that, energy is probably coming out constantly. And that would recharge the mines.

Anywhere else they wanted to protect with cloaked, self replicating mines would likely require a comparable natural power source, and there probably aren't too many out there.

The wormhole is in the Bajoran system. Can't they just use solar power?

I'd suppose the main reason they don't use these things everywhere is because space is big, and most ways you could bring an invasion fleet don't involve a bottleneck like the wormhole. So put these things anywhere else, and the fleet can just go around them.

[MissKittyFantastico]

I was always under the impression that the Dominion had already tried this and deemed the plan unfeasible. They had 2800 ships on the other side of the wormhole, and whilst they could spare a few, they probably wouldn't want to waste hundreds, especially as the minefield could theoretically completely reform itself from just a handful of surviving mines.

Especially if the mines are clever (and since O'Brien once took down Garak by pressing a button, they probably are) - they could do a quick scan and best-guess when they detect a ship and only use as many mines as they estimate it'd take to cripple that ship, leaving that same bit of space still populated and deadly for the next one to come through. Not to mention trying to rush the field and overwhelm it could result in ships destroying themselves just by slamming into the wreckage of the ones in front, while spacing the wormhole transits out would just give the field time to replenish itself.

In any case, they had Dukat continually boasting that he'd have the mines down any day now - even as Weyoun grew increasingly sceptical, they may have figured it was preferable to give him time on the off chance he succeeded. If it looked like Starfleet was going to retake DS9, meaning they'd never get the mines down, maybe they'd have gone for a brute force solution, but it happened the other way around, Starfleet only moved towards DS9 because they were taking down the mines. And technically the Dominion wasn't wrong to wait - even under attack, they got rid of the mines. Their only mistake was letting The Sisko get into the wormhole to ask his folks for a favour at the same time as the Dominion fleet was transiting, and they never had a clue there was anything in the Bajoran religion.

The wormhole is in the Bajoran system. Can't they just use solar power?

Maybe not through a cloak - if light's being 'bent' around the mine to dodge visual detection, it couldn't be collected. But 'Emissary' says the Denorios Belt is a 'charged plasma field', and whatever that is it sounds energetic.

[J!!]

Solar'd be too easy to counter; all you'd need is to build some sort of shade between the minefield and the sun.

I am wondering since we've seen the series have technobabble tech that can disable technology like an EMP, why wasn't that an option to stop the mines? Since the mines are only programed to replicate in the event if a fellow mine is destroyed, would disabling them via emp count as "destruction" in their program and automatically replicate.

It's probably safe to say that O'Brian thought out all the obvious stuff and devised countermeasures. And with all that USS Enterprise experience, it'll take a while to out treknobabble him. But i think the point was always that the minefield was always a short-term solution, and the Dominion would eventually figure out how to defeat it, hence the urgency of retaking the station.

Also, how many mines is too many for the Dominion fleet to not risk sending dozens if not hundreds of their own ships on a suicide run to detonate the mines? Whose to say the Dominion isn't wasteful enough to just send huge warships, absorb the mines and allow smaller faster ships to fly pass?

Why even waste the ships when they could just throw asteroids and other space-shit in to see what happens. One answer could be that the mines use the debris from whatever they blow up as raw material for their replicators. Thus, every time they do that, they gain more material, which they can use to build more mines, making the field even bigger and denser than it already is.


As far as power goes, I rather like the idea of drawing it from the wormhole, as it explains why don't use these things all over the place. But I really don't imagine the Prophets would appreciate it much. Be kinda like your neighbor asking if you could just leave your window open from now on, so he could run an extension cord out of your living room, because his house doesn't have enough outlets for all his electronic junk.

[TGLS]

I'd suppose the main reason they don't use these things everywhere is because space is big, and most ways you could bring an invasion fleet don't involve a bottleneck like the wormhole. So put these things anywhere else, and the fleet can just go around them.

I don't know. Stick them in a swarm configuration around a planet (or star!) and now you don't need defense ships anymore.

[MissKittyFantastico]

As far as power goes, I rather like the idea of drawing it from the wormhole, as it explains why don't use these things all over the place. But I really don't imagine the Prophets would appreciate it much.

What with non-linearity, The Sisko was in there the whole time, so presumably he'd have been okay letting his corporeal self run an extension cord through the window.

[Durandal_1707]

I'd suppose the main reason they don't use these things everywhere is because space is big, and most ways you could bring an invasion fleet don't involve a bottleneck like the wormhole. So put these things anywhere else, and the fleet can just go around them.

I don't know. Stick them in a swarm configuration around a planet (or star!) and now you don't need defense ships anymore.

It seems like making enough to keep anything from getting through to the planet would require a lot of mines. Like, a lot. Anything less than the spectacular amount you'd need for full coverage and sure, you could take out a few, but the rest would still get through and then it'd be game over.

And if you managed to make enough to prevent access to an entire star, then, well, you'd basically have built a Dyson Sphere, which has definitely been established to be rather beyond the Federation's capabilities.

[J!!]

As far as power goes, I rather like the idea of drawing it from the wormhole, as it explains why don't use these things all over the place. But I really don't imagine the Prophets would appreciate it much.

What with non-linearity, The Sisko was in there the whole time, so presumably he'd have been okay letting his corporeal self run an extension cord through the window.

I dunno, that soumds like it's coming dangerously close to creating a time-paradox. If he's not careful, Sisko'l end up ripping a hole in the universe and letting the time-bats in to eat Bajor and rickroll the Defiant.