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That's the rough thing about trying to save a parallel universe. Given how multiverse theory works, even if you decide to go help them and succeed, in the process new parallel universes are created where you didn't help them or where you didn't succeed. If all possibilities exist somewhere in the multiverse, then you can never prevent something from happening, only decide whether it happens in your reality as opposed to someone else's.

Fianna wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:28 am https://sfdebris.com/videos/stargate/sg1s3e6.php

It's been a while since I've seen this episode, but I remember when I watched it that, because of a few little continuity issues, I wondered if this actually ISN'T the main SGC helping a parallel world, but another parallel SGC assisting a third group (or fourth, depending on how you count them). That would be a twist, Teal'c's statement about theirs being the only world of consequence, but it actually is an entirely different SGC being the heroes of the show for one episode.

Fianna wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:28 am That's the rough thing about trying to save a parallel universe. Given how multiverse theory works, even if you decide to go help them and succeed, in the process new parallel universes are created where you didn't help them or where you didn't succeed. If all possibilities exist somewhere in the multiverse, then you can never prevent something from happening, only decide whether it happens in your reality as opposed to someone else's.

I've never liked the idea of the multiverse hinging on decisions, that there are an infinite number where each one is made by a different choice, because logically if that were the case then there is a universe where, exactly five seconds from now, everyone decides to try to murder everyone else, and then three minutes after that choose to continue with their lives as though nothing had happened. It doesn't work. The actual multiverse theory hinges on the idea of particles being determined to be in one location or another - i.e. if you measure a particle in superposition it will collapse to a definite state, and in one universe it is in one state and in another it is measured to be in a different state. It still produces a vast number of similar worlds, but it does mean each is still logically consistent and can potentially still allow for you to have your cake an eat it - many events can happen, but in the majority, as we now can have a majority rather than two or more sets of infinity, the events played out with the heroes saving the day. It also raises questions about the afterlives and the spirit world, if you believe in them, and if there would be a single afterlife for all realities, or each is separate.

Still, there have been a lot of interesting stories using the split-timelines-multiverse (as there are many types of multiverse), including Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths, and I think Terry Pratchett covered this in one of the Watch books, maybe a few. The Wheel of Time also had a nice take on it, with the idea of some realities being less real than others, as covered in The Great Hunt, and also alluded to in The Dragon Reborn and showing up again in the last book with some realities starting to collide at Shayol Ghul.

Well, strictly speaking, our decisions are simply the product of external factors (body chemistry, life experience, current circumstances). So us making different decisions in different universes is the result of those universes diverging, rather than the cause of it.

Fianna wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:15 pm Well, strictly speaking, our decisions are simply the product of external factors (body chemistry, life experience, current circumstances). So us making different decisions in different universes is the result of those universes diverging, rather than the cause of it.

That is a fair take, though unfortunately it isn't usually presented as that in those stories, much like how most people who hear about quantum mechanics and the double slit experiment focus on the idea of observation, rather than observation being from interaction, giving the idea that a conscious mind produces the changes rather than particles interacting with the environment. While it is true for the split-timelines-multiverse that different environmental changes result in different behaviours from the same people, it is almost always presented as "in this universe you made this choice, but in that universe you made another choice", rather than "in this universe these random elements were different and so you were pushed to make a different choice", etc.

Fianna wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:28 am https://sfdebris.com/videos/stargate/sg1s3e6.php

That's the rough thing about trying to save a parallel universe. Given how multiverse theory works, even if you decide to go help them and succeed, in the process new parallel universes are created where you didn't help them or where you didn't succeed. If all possibilities exist somewhere in the multiverse, then you can never prevent something from happening, only decide whether it happens in your reality as opposed to someone else's.

I am a lifelong sci-fi fan. I love me some parallel universes. But I find the idea itself to be ridiculous. I understand that they are the only way to plug certain holes in quantum physics, but I really do have the funny feeling that we've plugged the holes with the wrong ideas as opposed to us all essentially being gods.
I mean that is basically what we're saying here right? That we're all gods? Because that is certainly what ''creating a universe based on my actions'' sounds like.

I also cannot help but invoke the Fermi Paradox on this too. If aliens exist, where are they?
If parallel universes exist, where are all the Sliders? By the logic of the theory then at least some should have the ability to travel between them.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:36 pm I am a lifelong sci-fi fan. I love me some parallel universes. But I find the idea itself to be ridiculous. I understand that they are the only way to plug certain holes in quantum physics, but I really do have the funny feeling that we've plugged the holes with the wrong ideas as opposed to us all essentially being gods.

OK, let's get one thing clear here: the "Many Worlds" interpretation of Quantum Mechanics isn't the mainstream view of most quantum physicists. The Copenhagen Interpretation (i.e. wave function collapse on observation, which is to say an interaction between a quantum system and a non-quantum system) is about twice as popular amongst Quantum Physicists. Quantum theory has no need for any of these interpretations; the math works out the same way regardless.

clearspira wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:36 pmI am a lifelong sci-fi fan. I love me some parallel universes. But I find the idea itself to be ridiculous. I understand that they are the only way to plug certain holes in quantum physics, but I really do have the funny feeling that we've plugged the holes with the wrong ideas as opposed to us all essentially being gods.
I mean that is basically what we're saying here right? That we're all gods? Because that is certainly what ''creating a universe based on my actions'' sounds like.

We might actually be gods, for all intents and purposes. I mean, think of it that way: Your body gives off the illusion that it is a coherent mass, while in reality, it's a myriad of singular cells interacting in complex ways, which in turn are made of complex molecules interacting with each other, which in turn are made of atoms interacting with each other, but none are in direct contact to each other. For all intents and purposes, we are dense clouds of atomic matter, which consist mostly of... nothing, except that it's miniscule amounts of less nothing than everything surrounding us. And somehow all this can be motivated through a complex series of electrical signals and electromagnetic effects localized in a single place and that single place somehow has the at least seeming ability to act against deterministic effects in an otherwise entirely deterministic universe.

And you could even go one step deeper into the rabbit hole and dissect atoms into their building blocks (despite their name), quarks and co and yet even deeper, quantum mechanics, where matter isn't actually a thing but merely a cloud of much less probable likelyhoods happening in a completely (to our understanding) random backdrop of quantum states that are vastely more likely to occure than what is occuring in our particular spot of the "quantum sea". And our brain, us, we are actually able to interact with these quantum states in a way that is entirely improbable. In fact this is so improbable, that it borders on the impossible, as evidenced by the universe at large.

We're wizards, at the very least.

Thinking further on this, I am reminded also of an observation - this approach doesn't actually elevate human will or choice, but rather diminishes it. No matter what choice you made in one universe, another version of you made the opposite. According to this view you didn't choose anything, you are just watching which choice a version of you made, as another you with the exact same experiences made a different choice.

Ixthos wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:44 pm Thinking further on this, I am reminded also of an observation - this approach doesn't actually elevate human will or choice, but rather diminishes it. No matter what choice you made in one universe, another version of you made the opposite. According to this view you didn't choose anything, you are just watching which choice a version of you made, as another you with the exact same experiences made a different choice.

To quote Teal'c: "Ours is the only reality of consequence".

You deal with the reality you find yourself in, and make a difference in it. Let your other selves look after themselves. Like Chuck himself said in the Parallels TNG review, it is like rescuing starfish on the beach. Make a difference one starfish at a time.

Ixthos wrote: ↑Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:44 pm Thinking further on this, I am reminded also of an observation - this approach doesn't actually elevate human will or choice, but rather diminishes it. No matter what choice you made in one universe, another version of you made the opposite. According to this view you didn't choose anything, you are just watching which choice a version of you made, as another you with the exact same experiences made a different choice.

You get to choose which universe you stay in, though. It's effectively the same.

I think it is crazy, though... if you think about it scientifically. How can a new universe just spring up because of the choices or quantum BS regarding particles? Shouldn't that require immense amounts of energy?